"When I said athletic, I meant that you as the defender should be in good athletic shape to be able to hit hard, fast, take a hit, throw, not get tired, etc. "
I agree, when I spar, take hits to the body and head, and then assess my condition at the end, I think, jesus, if I didn’t train, I wouldn’t be able to take a quarter of the punishment.
I know what you mean about surviving a beating Rogue. In middle school, I lived in a “less prosperous” part of Saint Louis. Needless to say, in short time, I got into a fight with one of the kids there. I was pretty confident going into it. I was a (ready for this?) 1 year karate student. 
Well, I got one good kick in (kicked him right into the urinal of the boys bathroom) Well, that just made him mad and then he proceeded to “educate” me with his fists. Apparently, this kid was a boxer. He just pummeled my face and head until my guard was completely down and my spirit flattened. I don’t know how many times I was hit or how long the fight was really, but after a while my senses started to fail. The screaming of the kids (we had a crowd) sort of faded in and out and every time he hit me again there was a resounding thud that seemed to course throughout my whole body. I kept my feet the whole time, however.
After that fight I had a completely different outlook on MA training and a different mindset. To me, everything is mindset. When I learned a new technique from then on, I always related in my mind how I would use it in a real situation. You see, before I had just gotten my body attuned to the movement, not my mind, when in reality it should be a joint harmony between the two. Well, I wasn’t in Karate long before I decided to move on, but I did learn one crucially important lesson (believe it or not) from karate. The Way of the Samurai. Basically, this means to be aware. For example, If you walk into a room full of people you should maintain a certain mindset. First, note where all the exits to the room are. Second, note any nearby weapons, such as an umbrella or a chair that you can use. Next, try to draw a mental layout of the room in your head. Having done that, note where the light sources are and how you might extinguish them. If you don’t know anyone in the room, station yourself near the exit, with your back against the wall. If someone beckons you to join them, scan your planned route. Preferably, you should try to walk through a less populated area. If you must walk through a crowd, scan the crowd first. Lets say their are two crowds of people. One crowd is jovial and happy and the other crowd is pensive and silent, or aggressive and boistrous. Naturally, you should walk through the happy crowd. When you reach your friend, take up a position with your back against the wall. If you must sit down, be prepared to spring up at any time. If you must sit at a table, get a chair with no arms, and don’t scoot in too far, lest you trap yourself. Now, this might seem a little crazy to some of you, but it works wonders. No, I don’t think my friend or his friends will attack me, but the mental excercise alone strengthens your Will dramatically, and it makes you much more aware than the average hoodlum. And with awareness, comes self defense, because you can avoid almost every fight. Which brings me to the question : friend Blackspear, how in thunderation did you allow 7+ gang bangers to sneak up on you and push a fight? I mean leaving the feasibility of the situation aside, you’d have to be deaf, dumb, blind, and one-legged to let them get close in the first place!:rolleyes: oh well, just some of my views on self defense, people.
Forge Virtue and Honor in the hot fire of hard work
Gabriel
P.S. - Are any of you familiar with Mantis or any form of Chin Na? I mean, those systems are built for real life. Where else do you snap arms, kneecaps, legs, and fingers into pieces? For in a real life and death fight, such as the one with bats, knives, ect. posted by blackspear, thats what I would use, when done right an arm break can be executed just as fast as a punch or kick.
Originally posted by Gabriel
Where else do you snap arms, kneecaps, legs, and fingers into pieces? For in a real life and death fight, such as the one with bats, knives, ect. posted by blackspear, thats what I would use, when done right an arm break can be executed just as fast as a punch or kick.
You mean besides Brazillian Ju Jutsu
How Dare You!!!
I am the only Reality Guy here, as can be seen under my name. I am highly offended by all of you coming on here and speaking for us Reality Guys!
As a Reality Guy, I always spar at 99.97 per cent, no more, no less. Anyone who spars at 100 per cent is a fool, for that added .03 per cent is merely fluff, totally unnecessary to demolish your opponent. That is the reality of it, for I am a Reality Guy.
I have trained for all possible scenarios, so I would say my realistic training methods are realistic, as I would not have named them my realistic training methods were they not. I can fight you anywhere, for my methods cover all possibilities, whether in a garment factory, in a fun house full of mirrors, even in zero g.
Even when I practice forms, it is realistic. In my school, there is no such thing as one man, or victimless, forms. All of our forms involve a forms stylist and a victim. This is very realistic, for it teaches us how to use even the deadliest technique in a live situation.
However, that you even asked shows your loose grip on reality, for would I be a Reality Guy were I not realistic?
WD, as far as Brazillian Jiu Jitsu goes, I’ve had a (perhaps unfair) discrimination towards it ever since I saw Gracie sitting on his back like a ****roach for an hour at a time. Since I don’t really know more about the art than what I saw from him however, I might be irrationally discounting it.
Originally posted by Gabriel
WD, as far as Brazillian Jiu Jitsu goes, I’ve had a (perhaps unfair) discrimination towards it ever since I saw Gracie sitting on his back like a ****roach for an hour at a time.
It’s cool, you just have the same views about BJJ as the general public does about Tai Chi.
BJJ is a lot like Gong Fu systems. The training is centered around fundamental positions and transitions. These are the equivalent of stances and footwork. They consist of defending yourself on your back, escaping from the bottom position (even if your fully mounted), and using various top positions that leave you in a position to attack your opponent while he cannot attack you. There’s even a set of positions that leave you half standing on top of the guy with your knee planted on his ribcage so he can’t breathe properly. This is the $hit that will save your a$$ in a fight.
The subs and chokes are designed to break limbs and make people pass out. Strikes are considered too dangerous to practice “live” but are drilled in most schools. As well as biting eye-gouging, head butting, and other nasties. Also imagine someone getting you n the ground, smothering you so you can’t move your limbs very well, and draws a knife on you. Think about that one for a minute. Afterall, these are Japanese battlefield techniques that have been adapted to a different environment.
A ring fight will definately look different than in the street. I’ve been tapped in under 20 seconds so many times it’s embarrasing. My first time at BJJ standup, I was flying arm barred in less than 20 seconds and dropped straight to my knees.
Like any art, it is up to the individual to figure out how the raw tools can be converted into self defense according to their particular situation, environment, and personality.
WD. Very interesting post. Its funny that you mentioned that half standing on the rib cage to prevent breathing. In my kwoon, we practice abdominal breathing with a medicine ball on our chests as we lay flat. I always thought that this was to train us how to breathe properly because after the medicine ball abdominal breathing seemed easier and I gradually developed myself so that I could breathe abdominally all the time without thinking about it. But perhaps its training against some kind of pressure on the body and how to remain calm and breathe normally? Interesting. As far as the knife thing, whenever the opponent has a knife and I don’t its not exactly a situation that I prefer. However, a knife that could be turned on me can also be turned on the wielder. Do you guys practice finger strengthening techniques (like finger push ups) for your holds and grabs? Do you use short or long power for strikes? I’ve been trying to develop my short power lately. are your techniques sort of like a ground variation of Na? I assume you utilize angles of the body, bone misplacing, and tendon separating. very interesting. I’ll have to find a BJJ’er to spar with to answer all my questions I guess. 
In any case, you make BJJ sound way more formidable than I had imagined.
Forge Virtue and Honor in the fires of Hard Work
Gabriel
Ryu said:
Real self-defense is the study of criminology, how people react to language, body motions, etc. Real self-defense deals with awareness, de-escalation, surprise attacks, judging environments, finding escape routes, etc.
Fighting and self-defense are different. As Merry said.
I could not agree more. It is a lot about victim, agressor mentality and understanding of those roles. I used a great self defense move I learned the first day of a self defense class on the street, and it worked so well I was shocked. No fancy fists, or feet, or chi-blasts to tell about. However, it was straight out of the instructors mouth, and it worked exactly like he said it would.
This scary, scragly street dude was following me and asking me for money, and he kept coming after me as I walked faster trying to get away. He closed the distance too much, and I turned to him, pointed at his face, and commanded him to ‘Stop!’ He literally ‘jumped’ back like I had jumped out and scared him. He studdered, was bewildered, and turned 180 and walked away as fast as he could go!
Of course my next move was going to be a nice stiff palm to his face while I closed the distance, as he was too friggin’ close, and my 5 yr. old was with me. This guy was very scary looking, and I am not screwing with my life or my kids on the street. Normally, I am not ready to do something that drastic. This was in a bad part of town.
My point is, that is real street self defense. Thank God I did not have to fight.
Yeah, if I understand Chin Na correctly, BJJ is an art that is primarily about ground Chin Na.