[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1166692]Interesting that you should say that Kevin because the “shifting” was one of the things I was hoping someone would explain (along with the various hand positions / transitions) based on the initial inference that this is a relatively advanced practitioner from this lineage. He appears to leave his head on the centre but move his backside from side to side thus pulling the hips away. This way of turning / shifting is contrary to the way my lineage operates (we turn on the centre of the heels directly below the ankle protusion, but the hip position and head position is completely different) so I am interested out of sheer morbid curiosity, I’m sure that there is an explanation and I’d genuinely love to hear it given that it would be so opposite to what I am used to. An explanation of the lan sau type action that seems coupled to what has been described as an uppercut / jum sao would also be good.[/QUOTE]
Hi Ian
I did a mainland style initially and we had a turn sort of like what he is doing, but not so much the seeming disconnection of butt and head
As Kevin says, turning is used for the increase in power in offense and defense but, id also add, the turn can also create a different angle of attack and/or defense in relation to your opponent. It recreates the line of engagement
Its WC"s version of boxings slip, albeit at contact if you get my point.
It also maintains space between your opponent and yourself, albeit at contact range again (ie , stops a collapse of structure in regards to the hands)
[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1166692]Interesting that you should say that Kevin because the “shifting” was one of the things I was hoping someone would explain (along with the various hand positions / transitions) based on the initial inference that this is a relatively advanced practitioner from this lineage. He appears to leave his head on the centre but move his backside from side to side thus pulling the hips away. This way of turning / shifting is contrary to the way my lineage operates (we turn on the centre of the heels directly below the ankle protusion, but the hip position and head position is completely different) so I am interested out of sheer morbid curiosity, I’m sure that there is an explanation and I’d genuinely love to hear it given that it would be so opposite to what I am used to. An explanation of the lan sau type action that seems coupled to what has been described as an uppercut / jum sao would also be good.[/QUOTE]
Hello WCI,
The shifting of the weight/axis/centre/dropping follows the path of a small section of spiral. The idea is to slip (slightly) out of front on attack for the purpose of entering the side of the opponent; it is actually an attack with the entire body weight/structure dropping into the opponent.
[QUOTE=GlennR;1166761]Hi Ian
I did a mainland style initially and we had a turn sort of like what he is doing, but not so much the seeming disconnection of butt and head
As Kevin says, turning is used for the increase in power in offense and defense but, id also add, the turn can also create a different angle of attack and/or defense in relation to your opponent. It recreates the line of engagement
Its WC"s version of boxings slip, albeit at contact if you get my point.
It also maintains space between your opponent and yourself, albeit at contact range again (ie , stops a collapse of structure in regards to the hands)
Thats my 40 cents worth[/QUOTE]
yes exactly, we angle as we strike with aligned unity…abstract due the inability to know when to angle as a kata. Chi-sao and sparring helps the package come together.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1166768]yes exactly, we angle as we strike with aligned unity…abstract due the inability to know when to angle as a kata. Chi-sao and sparring helps the package come together.[/QUOTE]
I concur
But you dont shift his axis the same do you Kevin?
Not much time these as work is hectic. Sorry for not replying sooner.
When the body shifts you will notice the head/spine is in the same spot. He rotates on the center and the weight distribution is 50/50. As the body rotates and the weight slightly drops it uses a different method of “mechanics” to power our wing chun than some other lineages. For example: The YKS method of shifting is a bit different where they turn and weight 100/0. We are also different than the heel shifting lines.
If you want to read a bit more this article talks about the Pin Sun’s Kim Yeung Ma basics:
An example of an"application". Lets use the first action. This can be used to deflect and slicing that flows into the attack with a strike to the groin typically.
Someone asked about a retracting looking “lan sao” which is actually a “Lim Sao” (sickle hand). Why? If you notice something about the moves being demo’d both of them are using an “under cycling”! This is the opposite of lets say Wing Chun’s Lin Wan Choi which is using the opposite cycling. The skills that fall into the under cycling use the Lim Sao and not Wu Sao which suits the opposite cycle.
2:35 into this clip Master Fung Chun demo’s our drop’d shoulders/sunk elbow/body angle plus shows an over cycling punch. Then about 2:55 he demo’s and under cycling action with the Lim Sao.
Not much time these as work is hectic. Sorry for not replying sooner.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the efforts Jim, and the excellent clips.
[QUOTE=Jim Roselando;1166774]If you notice something about the moves being demo’d both of them are using an “under cycling”! This is the opposite of lets say Wing Chun’s Lin Wan Choi which is using the opposite cycling.[/QUOTE]
This too is something I have tried to explain to some of the people that have come to see me. I had never thought this was anything to do with Gulao stuffs before as I learnt both methods as a ‘yum yeurng’ jeurng (yin yang palm) including the ‘straight line’ methods that most tend to use these days. And yes, this means there are basically 3 types of fist mechanics!! And you’re right, they all have their specific uses.
I guess if some families have removed ‘toksau’ from their basics this could explain why this upward rotation is more alien, but then I have never understood the reasoning because toksau is referred to all the time on the wooden man, as much as huensau is in SLT. There are, again, reasons for this fme.
Not much time these as work is hectic. Sorry for not replying sooner.
When the body shifts you will notice the head/spine is in the same spot. He rotates on the center and the weight distribution is 50/50. As the body rotates and the weight slightly drops it uses a different method of “mechanics” to power our wing chun than some other lineages. For example: The YKS method of shifting is a bit different where they turn and weight 100/0. We are also different than the heel shifting lines.
If you want to read a bit more this article talks about the Pin Sun’s Kim Yeung Ma basics:
If you want to see a clear example of the shift. 5 seconds into this clip Master Fung Chun demo’s a full shift:
Hi Jim, read the article and gee it sounds like what we did. Endless horse training with the left, centre right a big part of that. And the turn and slight sink as well.
So let me get this right, you are 50/50 all the time and turn of the “K-1” area?
