Philosophical thoughts with living animals

Nei Jia: the Qigong and Taijiquan Forum Qigong and Meditation
21

one of my favourite stories about vegetarianism etc.
(supposedly true for those of you who are open to such things)

A Buddhist master was hosting a dinner.one of the guests had only recently adopted buddhism and was trying very hard to apply it’s principles to his life…consequently he was shocked to find that this highly respected master was piling up his plate with huge quantities of meat.
the guest repeatedly questioned the master on this, expressing his horror that a buddhist could be responsible for killing so many animals.the master said nothing until finally towards the end of the evening he took the guest to one side and tapped him on the head.the guest then saw all the souls of the animals on the table floating peacefully up to heaven, allieviated of their karma as that animal, ready to be reborn “higher”

the master said “if you can do that, eat meat. if not, you’d better be vegetarian”

___________________________________________________________________________ “I’m just trying to lull you into a genuine sense of security!”

22

Fish

I know of a man who calls himself a Buddha (???) based in Taiwan and his words exactly like that.

His teachings are very different from those of whom practises his lineage (the lineage he claims to practise). I have even seen him criticise Tibetan lamas so I really don’t listen to his discourses…

23

Maybe he actually punched him in the head and what the guy saw was stars.

Just kidding. :smiley:

cxxx:::::::::::>
What we do in life echoes in Eternity

24

cxxx:::::::::::> sword

Oh yeah! Good one! :slight_smile: Don’t know why I couldn’t see it before (I was thinking maybe it was some kind of belt!) :rolleyes:

Max

To know the unseen, you must first learn to see.

25

hello

Nexus: very good !The steak scenario nearly got me .I was half way to the local supermarket to go and buy half a pound of rump when I manged to control myself!
Lyle: The Dalai Lama could hardly be described as a cult fanatic now could h?! IMHO he is the Human being everyone should aspire to.

Eating meat is a choice that I believe everyone has the right to .I would not imply that a meat eater is wrong and i am right, if eating meat attributes to happiness for that individual then full strength to them i wish them the best of luck.
Abandit i idg the sword thing man. its one of those funny things that at first you cant see, until it is pointed out and now ill see it every time.

26

I am understanding more of it now I think…

Thank-you Prana, that makes more sense to me now, although I guess I will never grasp it all until the time of my enlightenment. Thank-you for the mantras…is it true that the best time to say a mantra is b4 you go to bed at night..in a kind of purifying of the days bad kamma? How many times would you suggest saying a mantra?
ABandit, I think that was how I first understood it, but had trouble explaining it :slight_smile:

27

Yeah, it is a bummer that life feeds on life. But its not our fault; we didn’t design the universe. (I do wish somebody would eat Bob Villa though)

28

Meat tastes good..

Thats all there is too it! And it is good for you (protien).

A good filet minion` always goes well with a nice red wine.

Happy Feastings!

  • Nexus

Freedom is what you do with what is done to you. - Sartres

29

prana - so Buddhism basically asserts that “bad things happen to to good people” because its karmic retribution? Well, then how do u know that me squashing a mosquito to death isn’t justified karmic retribution aginst the mosquito as well? Couldn’t it work both ways then? FYI, karma has been big on my mind lately, and I wonder if it’s really true, or just the Eastern version of the Western “scare tactic” of Heaven/H*ll for social behavioral control.

I really do want to know for a fact one way or the other…!

30

Origenx -

The path of karma and dharma are paths towards enlightenment, not scare tactics. One path, being karma says things like, what you do comes back 10xfolds in this life or the next etc etc. The path of Dharma, the one I am more inclined towards although neither is one I currently practice states basically you are accepting of all things and do all things you can to be righteous, virtous, pious, noble, have integrity etc. Basically the second path you do not expect to have good things from doing good things, nor do you expect bad things from doing bad things, you simply accept all things and allow them to flow naturally.

There is lots of good and bad articles of this on the internet. Do some reading, you might learn something (scary thought!).

  • Nexus

Freedom is what you do with what is done to you. - Sartres

31

origenx :slight_smile:

By squashing a mossie, you may be replenishing the mossie’s bad kamma which it had collected in the past, perhaps past lifes, but you choose to not allow that mosquitoe to become your guru, your path to enlightenment, and you are allowing that mosquitoe as a source of bad kamma.
Does that make sense ? An alternative, is to allow that mosquito to bite you, and you sacrifice a little of your blood for its well being, at the same time, you remove a whole lot of your “self”, or bad kamma, thanks to the mossie.
However, I am not saying that you should sit there and be feasted by a pile of mosquitoes, but just so you survive and everyday life.
Alternatively, coming from a VERY Mosquitoe infested country, (tropics) you could just swing your hand and shew them away. This is not what I did when I was a kid, but I know better now.
I am not sure how you can humanely make them GO AWAY…(???) someone else may help here…

HARRY :slight_smile:

I am not sure exactly when these mantras are to be said. I know the mantra belonging to Chenresig (On Mani Padme Hum, tibetan pronounce = Om Mani Pemme Hung) can be said anytime, is very powerful. Om Mani Padme Hung is to be said at least 21 times…
But I am not fluent with Mantra’s. perhaps someone here could help. It is also the reason why I prompted the questions in the first place :slight_smile: I hope you understand.

Dave The Dragon
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR> Eating meat is a choice that I believe everyone has the right to .I would not imply that a meat eater is wrong and i am right, if eating meat attributes to happiness for that individual then full strength to them i wish them the best of luck.
[/quote]
And in your words, I apologise to those whom I have offended through the posting of this thread… Thanks again. I want to be able to see things your way.

Some other words of wisdom that I wish to post here, which I thought was incredibly powerful…

With the thought of attaining enlightenment
For the welfare of beings,
Who are more precious than a wish-fulfilling jewel,
I will constantly practice holding them dear.

Whenever I am with others,
I will practice seeing myself as the lowest of all
And from the very depth of my heart,
I will respectfully hold others as supreme.

In all actions, I will examine my mind
And the moment a disturbing attitude arises,
Endangering myself and others,
I will firmly confront and avert it.

Whenever I meet a person of bad nature
Who is overwhelmed by negative energy and intense suffering,
I will hold such a rare one dear,
As if I had found a precious treasure.

When others, out of jealousy,
Mistreat me with abuse, slander and so on,
I will practice accepting defeat
And offering the victory to them.

When someone I have benefitted
And in whom I have placed great trust
Hurts me very badly,
I will practice seeing that person as my supreme teacher.

In short, I will offer directly and indirectly
Every benefit and happiness to all beings, my mothers.
I will practice in secret taking upon myself
All their harmful actions and sufferings.

Without these practices being defiled by the stains of the eight worldly concerns,
By perceiving all phenomena as illusory,
I will practice without grasping to release all beings
From the bondage of the disturbing, unsubdued mind and karma

Long Mantra of Chenresig (Buddha of Compassion)
namo ratna trayaya - namo arya gyana sagara - berotsana buha radzaya - tatagataya - arhate - samyaksam buddhaya - namo sarwa tatagatebhye - arhatebhye - samyaksam buddhebhye - namo arya awalokite - shoraya - bodhi satoya - maha satoya - maha karunikaya - tayata - om - dara dara - diri diri - duru duru - itte wate - tsale tsale - partsale partsale - kusume kusume ware - ihli mili - tsiti dzola - ahpanaye soha

[This message was edited by prana on 08-01-01 at 05:42 PM.]

32

Nexus,

I used to do a lot of bouldering, I saw no holds and decided the only way out of this cliff is to jump for whatever is above.

Nothing…

For a split second, my whole life ran before me. Instantly, that was my kamma, and I understood it.

I broke some bones but that was it, but the lesson I learnt was priceless, and worth the stack.

But that is MY realisation, I cannot speak for you, you need to find it yourself. I cannot convince you of something that is true to only myself :frowning:
And that goes for all the things I say on this board. However I understand it, it is only my (own selfish) perception. There are many wise people here on this board, and I like reading all of their responses, their thoughts… it is a different door into the same room. And as I see it, people here have good intentions, and so I rant on and on…

[This message was edited by prana on 08-01-01 at 05:43 PM.]

33

Immediately..

after reading the above, I ran outside and jumped off of my porch (24 1/2ft) and landed on my feet, completing it with a summersault and standing up and moving into the form ‘White Crane Spreads Wings’.

It is strange how nature did not decide to ‘Repulse This Monkey’.

Ok. I made the above up :slight_smile: just to shed some light on the topic!

Freedom is what you do with what is done to you. - Sartres

34

originex

Rather than retribution, see karma as learning lessons. Your soul must learn lessons in its path to perfection, and as you do things in life your sould builds up a kind of account of things it has to learn to advance along its path. That is karma. If you do not learn it this lifetime, then you have to learn it in the next. If you take the mosquito’s life before it has learned its lesson, you deprive it of its chance to learn its lesson and so you build up a karmic debt to that mosquito.

That’s the way I see it anyway :slight_smile:

cxxx:::::::::::>
What we do in life echoes in Eternity

35

So..

basically you see doing good deeds as taking out loans to pay off your debt?

“loans”

  • Nexus

Freedom is what you do with what is done to you. - Sartres

36

No, good deeds are more like working hard to make money to pay off a debt, not taking out a loan to pay off a debt :).

cxxx:::::::::::>
What we do in life echoes in Eternity

37

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR> “Alternatively, coming from a VERY Mosquitoe infested country, (tropics) you could just swing your hand and shew them away. This is not what I did when I was a kid, but I know better now.
I am not sure how you can humanely make them GO AWAY…(???) someone else may help here…” [/quote]

I’ve spent quite a bit of time working out bush in the Northern Territory over the past few years. When you shooed one away, a hundred would take its place! :eek: I had bites on top of bites - literally thousands on each arm. :mad: They seemed to eat personal repellant. :confused: We slept under mosquito nets but a few still managed to find their way in, and if any part of your body brushed against the net during the night, you’d wake up with a dozen or so bites on that small area of skin. :frowning: Lying in your swag, the screeching sound of thousands of mosquitos trying to get at you was almost deafening! :eek:

Faced with this onslaught, it’s hard not to kill hundreds of the little buggérs, just so you can hold onto at least a modicum of sanity! We tried citronella, which didn’t help much at all. Mosquito coils work quite well, cutting down the number of bites from hundreds per night to just a dozen or so.

Buddhism might work though. I’ll give it a try next time and let you know (just kidding!) :wink:

Oh, did I mention that lots of the bites get infected and can turn into tropical ulcers? :eek:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR> “If you take the mosquito’s life before it has learned its lesson, you deprive it of its chance to learn its lesson and so you build up a karmic debt to that mosquito.” [/quote]

I’m dead meat then, if the little bastà rds ever decide to come back for payment!!! :smiley: [/QUOTE]

Max

To know the unseen, you must first learn to see.

38

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR> “Alternatively, coming from a VERY Mosquitoe infested country, (tropics) you could just swing your hand and shew them away. This is not what I did when I was a kid, but I know better now.
I am not sure how you can humanely make them GO AWAY…(???) someone else may help here…” [/quote]

I’ve spent quite a bit of time working out bush in the Northern Territory over the past few years. When you shooed one away, a hundred would take its place! :eek: I had bites on top of bites - literally thousands on each arm. :mad: They seemed to eat personal repellant. :confused: We slept under mosquito nets but a few still managed to find their way in, and if any part of your body brushed against the net during the night, you’d wake up with a dozen or so bites on that small area of skin. :frowning: Lying in your swag, the screeching sound of thousands of mosquitos trying to get at you was almost deafening! :eek:

Faced with this onslaught, it’s hard not to kill hundreds of the little buggérs, just so you can hold onto at least a modicum of sanity! We tried citronella, which didn’t help much at all. Mosquito coils work quite well, cutting down the number of bites from hundreds per night to just a dozen or so.

Buddhism might work though. I’ll give it a try next time and let you know (just kidding!) :wink:

Oh, did I mention that lots of the bites get infected and can turn into tropical ulcers? :eek:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR> “If you take the mosquito’s life before it has learned its lesson, you deprive it of its chance to learn its lesson and so you build up a karmic debt to that mosquito.” [/quote]

I’m dead meat then, if the little bastà rds ever decide to come back for payment!!! :smiley:

Max

To know the unseen, you must first learn to see.

39

Gluteous Maximus,

you make a good point! I definitely am not saying that you shoud just sit there and let yourself be eaten by the mosquitoes. This is where I am ignorant and wish someone knew of an answer.

Buddhism is also about keeping once body in good shape, ie. ensuring good health since your body is considered a temple…therefore should be kept healthy and clean.

So what is the answer ?? (This is why I posted this question in the first place)

And how do these monks do it ? I went to the Tiger Cave temple in Thailand, and I saw little huts by the forest, where monks sleep. No more than a hut about 2 square meters with some wood.

Even in the daytime, we were being consumed by mosquitoes. And day and night, monks walk the forests of Thailand practising walking meditation. How do they survive the wild animals ? The bites of snakes ? Or do they radiate so much compassionate energy that they never get beaten (This is something I heard of powerful monks and yogins) even by the hungriest of tigers…

Medicine Buddha
om namo bhagawate hekandzyai - guru bendurya prabha andzaya - tatagataya - arhate - samyaksam buddhaya - tayata om bhekandzyai bhekandzyai - maha bhekandzyai bhekandzyai -randza samungate soha

40

Quote fom Lama Zopa Rinponche - for those who are interested :slight_smile:

Too achieve liberation from samsara there are five paths: the path of accumulating merits, the preparatory path, the right seeing path, the path of meditation and the path of no more learning. To be liberated from samsara is to achieve arhatship.
By achieving the right seeing path we remove 112 delusions to do with the desire realm, form realm and formless realm. Then through the path of meditation one removes sixteen obscurations and delusions. With this one attains arhatship. That’s nirvana in the sense of having ceased completely all the causes of suffering, karma and delusion.
However, there are still obscurations, but they are very subtle. They obstruct the arhat’s mind even though he has tremendous psychic powers. Unlike the Buddha, the arhat is not able to see directly everything at the same time. An arhat does not have an omniscient mind; that’s the quality of a buddha, one who has completely destroyed all subtle obscurations.
In Mahayana teachings, wisdom arises when all obscurations are removed, not only gross obscurations but even the subtle ones. The wisdom to remove the subtle obscurations comes through the development of bodhicitta. With this the wisdom realizing emptiness is able to destroy the subtle obscurations. It’s like washing cloth. First you wash the black, dirty part. Then there is still some smell and stain left. Even that is washed. Eventually the cloth becomes completely cleaned. It becomes as clear as a mirror. We all have the buddha nature in our mind when the subtle obscurations are removed.

Medicine Buddha
om namo bhagawate hekandzyai - guru bendurya prabha andzaya - tatagataya - arhate - samyaksam buddhaya - tayata om bhekandzyai bhekandzyai - maha bhekandzyai bhekandzyai -randza samungate soha