Philosophical thoughts with living animals

Nei Jia: the Qigong and Taijiquan Forum Qigong and Meditation
1

Here are some questions for all…

  1. Are you a vegetarian, and why are you a vegetarian ?
  2. If you are concerned about animals and living creatures, how do you perceive driving, walking, living an everyday life ?
  3. What about plants ? Are plants living creatures that we shant kill unnecesarily ?
  4. Anything else you would like to add…

I often find myself feeling upset because my car has driven over some worms that was on the ground trying to escape the flooding grounds. Or, bothered because some slugs were crawling in the garbage bins and throwing them out would kill them, if they are mistreated in the garbage trucks compressing cavities.

Yet many a teachers of ther past has formulated mantras that aim at projecting their souls to a better rebirth. By putting these mantras on their vehicles or shoes, and even reciting mantras for creatures living in their intestinal tracts, they ensure a better rebirth for these creatures through the compassion of Buddhas.

I have given up eating land meat, as one day, through much meditation, I have felt saddened energies lingering about flesh of large mammals. But I am still guilty of consuming seafood, which also feels pain.

Reflect on your thoughts regarding this topic… please share with your thoughts.

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Eating..

Eat for eating. Eat for life, not for ego. Resist the hindrances of the mind, but do not fool yourself into being overly strict. Enjoy yourself, eat good foods, eat until full and no more.

Do not worry for animals and such, eat what must be eaten to be healthy, this is natures course, do not ride on guilt and doubt while providing yourself with life.

Unless you are a monk do not live like one, be yourself, be kind and fair. It is difficult to be at the top and still need the bottom to survive. The animals are our foundation, hence, do not take in excess, but take enough to build strong.

Hope this helps.

Freedom is what you do with what is done to you. - Sartres

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  1. I am a vegetarian - it was just a natural progression off processed and dense foods.

  2. Frankly, I’ve never really thought about this. So, I couldn’t contribute any more thoughts than the obvious on this question. But, do u think those germs give a fck about u when they get u sick or give u an infection? U think they give a sht about your suffering when they give u pneumonia? So maybe we need to be selective about who we’re nice to? Eye-4-an-eye? Screw the mosquitos!!! :slight_smile:

  3. I think plant diets are healthier for both us and the planet. The beneficial health effects of plants to humans are well-known. But it also minimizes our impact on the environment as well. Plants either grow and die fast or live long but produce new fruit every season. So it’s difficult to overeat a plant species into extinction. Whereas it’s all too easy to do that with animals, which have longer growth periods, and are usually just killed for their flesh, not some replenishable food product they keep producing. Just look at all the animals on endangered species lists right now. Now compare that to endangered plants.

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Nexus and Origenx

Thanks for both your replies.

Well regarding germs and Viruses and worms in the body, even mosquitoes.

  1. It is written in Buddhist history, that Buddha in one of his past lifes was a snake, and remained hungry as a snake to not eat the flesh of other animals. (I am not sure where I have been taught this one, it was a long time ago)
  2. It is also thought that Ananda offered himself to a hungry animals as food out of compassion.
  3. It is often referred to by many lamas that worms are manifestations of our negative kamma as we have, in the process of our lives, caused them to lose their source of food. They did not mean to be reborned in the intestinal tracts of another living being.
    Some Tibetans refuse to take worm medicines, others until a great deal of “cleansing” has been performed for these little creatures
  4. Mosquitoes, and other animals that bite, are the natural kamma both on ours and on their sides. Some animals are borned with instincts to not just eat flesh, but eat flesh of their own species… And we are eaten by these animals (or bitten) because we have somehow hurt them in our past lives and repaying our debts to them…

Just food for thought… not to say whether it is wrong or right. Anybody else care to comment or have more to add ?
:slight_smile:

5

conscious

we are the only species that has a guilty or a conscious, thats why you feel like that!:slight_smile: im a taoist and dont kill anything, i have a guilty conscious and i hate it! :frowning: thats why we can become enlightened we have a chance to understand our wrong doings and follow the correct path then we are on the road to enlightening onself.

i eat meat and vegies, but trying to give up meat is hard for me as i was brought up with steak every damn night! i will succseed… :wink:

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

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I kill sparingly, humanely and quickly.

I kill for three reasons: 1) to eat; 2) to put dying animals out of pain; 3) hygiene and health.

I don’t enjoy killing at all, but have no qualms taking the life of a wild animal for food. That animal has had a far better quality of life than pigs or cattle kept in feedlots, who are fed on hormones and other feed developed in laboratories for the purpose of achieving maximum growth in the fastest possible time.

One thing anyone who eats meat must face up to is that their demand for meat means that they are indirectly responsible for the killing of animals. It makes no difference to the animals whether you kill them with your own hands or pay someone else to kill them on your behalf.

Max

To know the unseen, you must first learn to see.

7

Why so much guilt?

It is the natural order of things for life to consume life.

8

only in the lower realms it seems. See instinctial patterns of being an animal.

9

I am of the belief that every sentient being seeks happiness and wants to avoid suffering and so I choose not to impose that suffering onto the animals,after all every animal experiences pain I believe i have no right to cause them that pain.

but i also appreciate that not everybody thinks like this and although it has been a while now i do just about remember how good a steak used to taste.

everybody is different ,and so has different views

10

I am a lactovegetarian now…

1.)I have had a gradual process of giving up first red meat, then all land meat, and about a month ago gave up fish also… I did it as I see that if I can survive without being part of killing animals, I will… I have from time to time an egg maybe from a free-range chicken, this is to keep my omega-3 levels in my body, and the milk products I use are organic (which I need for my B-vitamins)

2.) I am concerned for all living beings in everything I do, it is part of being in the moment I think Prana when you are aware of the suffering you may be causing through your actions. Remember it is intention that seperates our acts from being good or bad karma..i.e. an animal ‘stealing’ our food is not causing bad karma as it is satisfying a need and has no intention of doing us harm.

3.) Plants are living things also, but then we must look at the re-birth cycle…the way I have been told,it is thought that the re-birth cycle is highest at man and gradually diminishes down to plant life, although I do not fully understand this concept yet.

4.) I am interested in learning what prayers you can say in the rectifying of karma when you realise you have accidentily killed. As sometimes I do feel guilty, although I have not even swatted a fly for a long time now, and sort of feel more peace with all the crwatures around me (even the scary ones :slight_smile: )

Just a little help for all you vegetatian hopeful meat eaters…
When I crave meat(as sometimes I do, I was a BIG meat eater b4 giving up, and cycling home past loads of take-aways doesn’t make it easy) what I do is use Marmite or some other yeast spread alternative(veggiemite i think in aust.) I spread it thick in a sandwich and normally that gets rid of my desire for the meat(which I think is just the body craving B-vitamins).

Peace…

11

Thank you for your responses. I will try and recover those mantras that help bring those animals a better rebirth, and once I get them I shall post them here.

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Harry the Monk,

The life cycle as taught by Padmasambhava, is that, from highest to lowest orders…

  1. The god realm
  2. The titans realm
  3. The human realm
  4. The animal realm
  5. The hungry ghosts
  6. The hot and cold hells

Dave the Dragon, that is inspring. Thanks

13

OOPS!!!

Well, thanx Prana, sorry if I gave out the wrong idea in my post earlier, but that was the way I understood it from what I was told. :slight_smile:
Look forward to the posting of the mantras also… :slight_smile:
so humans aren’t the plane b4 nirvana then?
and where do plants appear on the cycle?
Looks like I need to find a teacher :slight_smile:

Peace…

14

This topic…

makes me hungry.. Removes large, medium-rare porthouse steak, previously soaked in barb-q sauce with special seasoning from the fridge

places on grill, listening to the sizzle of the fat into the coals below

removes steak from grill, places on plate and begins eating the medium-rare flesh slowly

Yum!

  • Nexus

Freedom is what you do with what is done to you. - Sartres

15

Prana…

Take your cult and walk.

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Lyle

Sometimes I do have fun with trolling people who do eat meat (I am not as cool and collected as some here have shown they are), but I do not want to do that here because you guys arent bored unemployed looking for hours to kill.

I am sorry you feel that this is a cult. I am not shove this down your throat, but similarly, you do not have to click on this link.

Me thinx its your own conscious you r trying to push away. That is your own kamma calling from within.

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR> sorry if I gave out the wrong idea in my post earlier, but that was the way I understood it from what I was told.
Look forward to the posting of the mantras also…
so humans aren’t the plane b4 nirvana then?
and where do plants appear on the cycle?
Looks like I need to find a teacher [/quote]

I don’t think you gave the wrong idea. The beings that find it easiest to reach enlightenment is the human realm. Owing to the balance of good and bad, the human kind is constantly reminded that life is suffering. We are also given the intelligence and wisdom to discover the true meaning of life.

Where as the god realm and the formless realm are free from sufferings such as sickness, hunger etc and have extremely long lifes (in eons) that when their good kammas are lived off, they have forgotten how they gotten the rewards in the first place and usually are reborned in the helll realms. This is why we as humans shall not dwell in pride.

As for the titans, they are not happy with what they have and are constantly looking at the gods and jealous of them. WHen their kammas are lived off, they are reborned in the hungry ghost realms for the constant jealousies.

Discourses from Lama Yeshe…
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>
"At the time of death, the person who is going to be born in the hot hell realm feels very cold. That’s not due to the climate or any other
external factors—it’s not that generally the country is very cold or that the person doesn’t have enough to wear or enough bedding. It’s not a
question of that. Of course, even those things are determined by karma,
[/quote]
…

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR> The hot hells are like that. Now the cold hells. At the time of death, the process is that, even if the weather where you are is extremely cold, if you’re in a very cold place, due to your karma, if you are going to be born in the cold hell realms, you feel unbelievably hot and experience incredible craving for cold, to be cool; you have much craving for the pleasure of feeling cool. Then, with that craving, you die, and then—like
after going to sleep, you dream—the intermediate stage happens, and then—like waking from a dream—the karmic appearance of the cold hell manifests. [/quote]

…
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR> Many insects were dying and we didn’t seem to have much choice about killing them. I was telling the others in the car, “We are creating many, many causes to be born in the Gathering and Crushing Hell.” The Gathering and Crushing Hell is the third of the hot hells, where you are crushed between huge mountains shaped like the heads of the animals or
human beings you have killed. You are crushed between the mountains, your blood gushes out like a waterfall, then you revive and are crushed
all over again. This goes on and on for an inconceivable length of time, until the karma is exhausted. I said, “I think we are creating many causes to be in that hell realm.” [/quote]

Some manatras I could find…
OM PEMO USHNISHA VIMALE HUM PHET. - Couldnt find the deity associated with the Mantra
OM MANI PADME HUM - Buddha Avalokiteshevra
OM TRE TSARA GHANA HUNG HRIH SOHA

I have yet to find out where plants are in this plane of life… any one knows ?

18

Lyle

Prana is not talking about a cult, unless you want to call Tibetan Buddhism a cult.

harry_the_monk, as I understand it (in Tibetan Buddhism), Humans are not the level before Nirvana, but rather have the best opportunity to reach Nirvana.

cxxx:::::::::::>
What we do in life echoes in Eternity

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ABandit, what does this mean: cxxx:::::::::::>?

Just curious :slight_smile:

Max

To know the unseen, you must first learn to see.

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It’s a sword :slight_smile:

Let your eyes blur a little and you will see it is a sword with the tip pointing to the right. Kind of like a Roman short sword. If you have seen Gladiator, it is kind of like the sword Maximus has at the start of the movie :wink:

cxxx:::::::::::>
What we do in life echoes in Eternity