I’m just currious…
To those who are, Why are you a vegetarain or vegan?
As I’m looking into it but dunno, sound good in some ways but I just dont know.
Thanks,
Shane
Shaolin diet, vegetarianism and stuff
I’m enjoying the discussion on vegetarianism in the zhan zhuang thread. I wonder if we could continue it here, so the crosshandz can keep the focus on zhan zhuang?
LFJ mentions how the Chanwuyi website mentions that meat blocks attaining englightenment. As I understand it, LFJ considers this claim to be unsubstantiated.
In another section of the site the argument is more nuanced. Please see here:
First of all it’s starts by saying “True followers of Shaolin Chanwuyi are vegetarians with a special diet”. So right off, the article makes it clear that this is the view of a particular subbranch of the Caodong (jap. Soto) school, called ChanWuYi.
The heart of the argument on the page is that meat affects one’s mental state and health. According to the chanwuyi theory, meat and spicy vegetables make it harder to have a stable and calm mind. They can also harm the body.
The scriptural reference is to Lankavatara Sutra.
For laypeople the recommendation on the site is appropriate amounts of meat or spicy vegetables when you are healthy. And in times of illness, no meat or spicy vegetables.
For someone seriously training and trying to reach a high level the more restrictive diet applies.
I find the more detailed explanations of what the Chanwuyi believe to be more helpful than the sweeping statement that LFJ reacted to, and which may have been written by the site author.
In order to get anywhere in this training you need focus.
The Bland diet and lack of distractions can help this in most people.
The first stage of Practice is often referred to as Fuhu, Taming the Tiger. (The tiger being the unconscious element of your mind). The ability to achieve focus is essential.
Once you reach this level you can eat McDonalds every day and live in a Brothel and you will still be able to attain focus.
There are no Rules, No prerequisites. There is simply useful advice to help you along your way. In the end this kind of Kung Fu can only be realised by yourself. No master can take you with him. Just point you on a shorter path.
Why make life so difficult?
Follow the instruction for 100 days with the Neigong practice to cultivate Qi and find out what happen and how your body -mind transform.
Often, it is a problem for those who keep wanting proof and debating and arguing the basic , those are wasting of life. These people never really practice anything deeper but keep spinning their head and skeptics on anything beside their own skeptics and doubtfull mind.
Why you need to be vegetarianism?
in the most basic,
because if you take animal product and trying to cultivate and accumulate Qi in your Dan Tian, you will end up leak it out via sexual dream or unknown anger which disrupt your mind body.
vegetarianism is to avoid the above to happen in order to complete the training.
Some love to argue and debate… on the sutra. Any serious advance Chan practitioner knows, Whatever the Shurangama sutra says NO. one dont argue. Why? because those are the safe guard and one could read in the history of Chinese Buddhism what goes wrong with those violate it. How many in the history of Chinese Buddhism which knows how to argue with clear twisiting words end up in trouble? read the history.
Again, if your Kung fu is advance, you know it because you can scan your body and mind and know what is the reaction.
It is a bad habit to require REASONS for everything as in the Post Newtonian philosophy science thinking if one has good reason that is the ultimate. knowing not that mind-body-soul cultivation is beyond Reasons, meaning reason doesnt cover everythings.
For example,
how many of people here can enter into silence, have accumulated Zhen Qi in the Dan Tian, and be able to evoke it at will? one can have all the reasons wherether that is possible, what happen, suspicion…etc but if you cant do it. then what is the point? you just dont know and you dont have experience.
To those who has the ability, they knows, sex is draining, meat is excitation. it is just how it is. No reasons, that is how the body and mind react.
So, one can have all the reasons and all the arguement…etc. those are just makes believe similar to those who has never eat apple keep skeptic and argue why why why… Those are a wasting of time. the bottom line is to get the kung fu and see it for yourself if it support the training or it do nothing.
In China, instructors, expecially the advance one usually purposely expect someone to just follow the instruction and not answer to those questions because they are checking if the student is the real deal. most likely, 80%-90% of the student who keep skeptic and asking quenstions are those who is “talking Zen” just talk and not willing to do anywork. thus, it is a wasting of energy to deal with this type of student which at the end doesnt develop any kung fu but keep spinning the mind.
Asking Quesition is good if the question is for clarification,
however, when one ask all the question started with accusing others is dishonest, using skeptics attitude, challenging…ect. Those are a wasting of energy which should be ignored because it doesnt contribute to any practice. no one ask you to practice if you has doubt dont practice.
The question here is…
…who here is vegetarian?
[QUOTE=GeneChing;1116222]…who here is vegetarian?[/QUOTE]
I’m sort of half-heartedly trying to be. Munching that tofu. Occasionally a slice of bacon or five slides down the hatch though. Dang, I’m a bad perso… mmmm.
For Hendrik: I’ve done 30 days Buddhist vegetarian food + full celibate + neigong about 1 1/2 to 2 hours early every morning (getting up about 4 or 5) plus regular training in the day. This once a year for the last four years. Afterwards I feel great. Healthy and strong.
So put it together… thats 120 days;)
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1116204]
To those who has the ability, they knows, sex is draining, meat is excitation. it is just how it is. No reasons, that is how the body and mind react.
[/QUOTE]
As I said, this is kind of True while ‘Taming the Tiger’ and that is part of the ‘Taming’ of the tiger. But its not important after it and not essential for it. If you can evoke ZhenQi at will none of these other things matter any more, nor does any of the zhuang practice, or any of the breath or anything else.
[QUOTE=rett;1116224]I’m sort of half-heartedly trying to be. Munching that tofu. Occasionally a slice of bacon or five slides down the hatch though. Dang, I’m a bad perso… mmmm.
For Hendrik: I’ve done 30 days Buddhist vegetarian food + full celibate + neigong about 1 1/2 to 2 hours early every morning (getting up about 4 or 5) plus regular training in the day. This once a year for the last four years. Afterwards I feel great. Healthy and strong.
So put it together… thats 120 days;)[/QUOTE]
Great!
No one is perfect. Me neither.
nope that is not 120 days. but it is ok because not everyone is the same and not everyone’s goal is the same.
if you seriously wants to cultivate Qi in Dan tian, the 100 days straight cannot be avoid. because one needs to transform the Qi holding ability of the body.
when the body got energetic, any sexy stuffs which one doesnt pay attention before will be ampliying 100X and thus it is easy to get wet dream. also, one will feel invincible when the energy is filling up so anger will be easily evoke because now the Ego has lots of energy it never has before to command.
So, that is vegitarian, without the vegitarian diet, man, one is one’s worst enemy.
As in the Shurangama sutra, it is not just the Killing mind cause one problem, it is also what one eat, so, it is a problematic thinking the mind is everything. Nope, the food influence one, the emotion influence one, as much or even more then the mind.
One for the bad things now as bad as Meat is softdrink. That disrupted the body and mind. So, to be serious, the ancient art might not work for today’s practice anymore if the food is not keep as nature as possible.
also, dont eat to much the so called Chinese vegetarian food, those are filling with toxic with lots of process carb, oil and sugar and salt. True vegitarian is balance whole food such as those in Fresh Choice restorant.
I am not trying to be an A$$ but just to tell you everything has its cause and effect and consequence. since you put your mind in training Shao Lin, then might as well develop some real kung fu with a little extra precaution in your life. instead of wasting your effort just because a certain small stuffs.
As I said, this is kind of True while ‘Taming the Tiger’ and that is part of the ‘Taming’ of the tiger. But its not important after it and not essential for it. If you can evoke ZhenQi at will none of these other things matter any more, nor does any of the zhuang practice, or any of the breath or anything else.
Yes!
I would like to meet you some day perhaps Ren Da Hai. 
As I said, this is kind of True while ‘Taming the Tiger’ and that is part of the ‘Taming’ of the tiger.
But its not important after it and not essential for it.
If you can evoke ZhenQi at will none of these other things matter any more, nor does any of the zhuang practice, or any of the breath or anything else.
that is not true at all.
after one has the ren and du medirians flow connected, one will not use the ren to p@nis routh as much any more. one has switch the path of Qi.
Sex break the ren and du flow and force the qi goes from ren down to the p@nis and drain the heck out of your dan dien.
before you got the Zhen Qi accumulate, your drain is little per sex. after you got your dan dian fill you drain it big time. not to mention every time one have sex you break the ren and du flow. and one has to retrain it to go back to the ren and du flow which is down from ren upward with du down to dan dien with ren and storing in Dan dian. if you dont do that it will go as dan dien to P@nis and will not go upward with du and not store but drain.
one of the reason one has wet dream is because the habit of sex that make it flow down to peni$ instead of going back upward with Du medirian.
as for anger, if your Ren and Du doesnt govern and balance, then anger is not easy to settle naturally.
So, if you eat meat and have sex after you got the kung fu, that is suicide. one better off dont train.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1116238]that is not true at all.
after one has the ren and du medirians flow connected, one will not use the ren to p@nis routh as much any more. one has switch the path of Qi.
Sex break the ren and du flow and force the qi goes from ren down to the p@nis and drain the heck out of your dan dien.
before you got the Zhen Qi accumulate, your drain is little per sex. after you got your dan dian fill you drain it big time. not to mention every time one have sex you break the ren and du flow. and one has to retrain it to go back to the ren and du flow which is down from ren upward with du down to dan dien and storing in Dan dian. if you dont do that it will go as dan dien to Peni$ and will not go upward with du.
one of the reason one has wet dream is because the habit of sex that make it flow down to peni$ instead of going back upward with Du medirian.
as for anger, if your Ren and Du doesnt govern and balance, then anger is not easy to settle naturally.
So, if you eat meat and have sex after you got the kung fu, that is suicide. one better off dont train.[/QUOTE]
I think this is a very complicated view to adhere to.
Simply, we become aware, we learn to cultivate, we know what degrades and we manage from there. With strength and all things in moderation, we do not need to know linguistic details in regards to how we actually are able to feel our body work or react to what we put in it.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1116244]I think this is a very complicated view to adhere to.
Simply, we become aware, we learn to cultivate, we know what degrades and we manage from there.
With strength and all things in moderation,
we do not need to know linguistic details in regards to how we actually are able to feel our body work or react to what we put in it.[/QUOTE]
That is true for common logic.
However, a train body and mind with Kung fu is no longer the ordinary mind-body. another layer of the body with is the Qi layer of the body needs to be cleary handle. most people dont know this exist and not aware of it. and even aware of it doesnt know how it works if not train properly by expert sifu.
if one doesnt know the details flow of Ren and Du, how Qi stored in Dan Dien and the entering into silence to activate Qi…etc then one practically dont have the training.
not to mention,
actually Ren could flow down to three path, one path going down to the legs and dissipate, one path going to the p@nis , one path going to the Du and upward. and if one doesnt have handing on this, one doesnt have Qigong.
so, there is no way out once one decides to walk this path. one got to listen to be body and Qi, no longer using the mind as ordinary people thinking moderation. it is a training for life and serious.
Thus, Wu Gu lun is speacking the Truth of Shao Lin cultivation
,
!
I am just sharing some more details on the Qi cultivation so that those who are interested knows there are such things needs to handle. and one needs a teacher to coach one if one decide to go this path.
Thus, those who keep asking why no sex, why no meat knows, how it is specifically influence the body- mind via the Qi layer. It is a technology not a believe. and in order to handle the production and repeatability of training, one needs to be clear.
Zhen Qi can’t be drained or stored, at least not in the way that that terminology implies.
The more it is used, the stronger it becomes
I think we are talking about a different practice.
Cheers, you too
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1116253]@Hendrik
Zhen Qi can’t be drained or stored, at least not in the way that that terminology implies.
The more it is used, the stronger it becomes
I think we are talking about a different practice.
Cheers, you too[/QUOTE]
I am talking about traditional Chinese Zhen Qi definition as in TCM, TCMA … cultivation.
In my experience the different Qis are different
I’ll leave it there
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1116261]In my experience the different Qis are different
I’ll leave it there[/QUOTE]
are you a Shao Lin? a Wudang? a Emei? a TCM? who do you practice Neigong from?
I am refering to Zhen Qi as the following it is common.
http://baike.baidu.com/view/331145.htm
you are posting an ancient Daoist character of the same thing.
What I have described above is a common knowledge of Qigong in China.
I’m Shaolin, but I also practice SongXi (Wudang). I learned from an old man in a forgotten village, but thats not important 
is the character specifically for ZhenQi, its not used any more. (Combin. Void + Fire means ‘cessation of desire’).
I know what your talking about, but its the compiled standard Qigong of all china. There are many sects with many different views. Somewhere along the centuries the concept of Zhen QI, breath Qi, and several others have been rolled into one…and it doesn’t really make sense.
But when it comes to these things no one will heed whats written on a forum. So I’ll have to leave it there. The character is worth looking up though It has a bit more meaning than the standard ‘Vapour’.
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1116269]I’m Shaolin, but I also practice SongXi (Wudang). I learned from an old man in a forgotten village, but thats not important
is the character specifically for ZhenQi, its not used any more. (Combin. Void + Fire means ‘cessation of desire’).
I know what your talking about, but its the compiled standard Qigong of all china. There are many sects with many different views. Somewhere along the centuries the concept of Zhen QI, breath Qi, and several others have been rolled into one…and it doesn’t really make sense.
But when it comes to these things no one will heed whats written on a forum. So I’ll have to leave it there. The character is worth looking up though It has a bit more meaning than the standard ‘Vapour’. (The actual character is a little different to but thats the closest still used)[/QUOTE]
Thanks for sharing.
For me, it doesnt matter how the character is written. the important point is how to cultivate it.
what I am quoting is a proved, do able , and safe cultivation path, which accord with TCM, we dont want to mislead the Westeners and screw them. a proper path must be reveal.
For those who is serious and interested, this is the real deal of Neigong in Chinese Martial art tradition.
This is the type of thing I’m saying you can’t just claim without providing evidence to support it. If you have no evidence, there is no reason to believe it to be true and you shouldn’t pass it around as if it were so.
Like the other things in the Zhan Zhuang thread you asked to have translated. They are just more claims of the same type, without evidence.
For example; “”
My translation is; “Meat eaters are more impulsive and aggressive than vegetarians, this can be seen in the behavior within the animal kingdom.”
This is ridiculous. Carnivorous animals are of course more aggressive because they have to stalk and chase their prey. They don’t get a free and easy meal like vegetarians. This is not at all caused by what goes into their stomach.
To use examples in the animal kingdom as proof of emotional or personality effects different diets have on human beings is ignorant. What would be accepted as proof of this claim would be an actual peer-reviewed scientific journal demonstrating the claim to be true. Not just someone saying so.
[QUOTE=GeneChing;1116222]…who here is vegetarian?[/QUOTE]
I’ve been on the vegetarian diet for many years. So I’m not arguing against it at all. I’m simply asking for reasonable evidence to support claims made in regards to diet and training of Qigong and high level of Gongfu, which some people have been claiming requires a vegetarian diet.