Pak Mei Question

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Southern Chinese Kung Fu
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I am aware of the main lineage of Pak Mei comming from Chueng Lai Chun. But I am currious if any one knows anything about different branches of Pak Mei. I have heard there is a different one in Futsan that doesn’t go through Cheung Lai Chun. Any comments?

I hope this to be a civil discussion and not defenerate into a political one.

Thanks
Tom

Kitchen Measures

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BAK MEI PAI

shaolin master had a topic called omie bak mei or something like that. It doesnt trace lineage to CLC, futsan bak mei from eddie chong doesnt have CLC in there lineage as well.

hope that helps?

FT:)

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Are these the only two “publicized” lineages ? I’m not familiar with a specific “Omei Bak Mei”, though our history originates from Omei Mountain.
I’ve seen reference regarding other teacher’s without mention of specific lineage, but other than that, Chueng Lai Chun and Lau Siu Leung are the only two that are publicized in any fashion that I’m aware of.

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i have heard of a 3 pattern eagle claw system wich was ment to have come from the monk bak mei and a ten tiger claw system ??? seen lau siu leung’s web site and noticed some of the form names are the same as those of cheung lai chung does any one know Lau Siu Leung’s bak mei system that can tell me some about it

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LAUBEI

Hi,

Can you get me the address for lau sui leungs webpage?

3 form eagle claw form do you know the chinese name for it?
Eagle claw form was also known as ying jow sup jee kol da, kol sa, kol la.
Thank
FT

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Eagle Claw (Form 3)

I believe the Chinese for form 3 is: Lim (or Lin) Kiu Ying Jow Kuen.
Which I believe the translation is something like ‘Joining Bridges Eagle Claw Fist’, which was taken from the Loong Yin Pai.

This is from Sifu Tang Cho Tak’s lineage, who learnt from both Chueng Bing Fat & Grand Master Chueng Lai Chuen. :slight_smile:

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This is your third form in your Bak Mei system ?

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?

I’ve never understood where this supposed connection to LY came in - the Dragon Style Eagle Claw form does not even remotely resemble the Bak Mei version, unless there is another Eagle Claw form I’m not aware of in LY.

Both are very nice sets, but the resemblance, in my own mind, just isn’t there!

Cheers - Ao Qin

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AO QIN

The ying jow lin kuil form starts the same as the lung ying salute but uses the bak mei salute also has a dragon feel to it. It does or maybe to you isnt resembling to dragon lung ying mor kuil which it was suppose to be invented from…the mor kuil form gave the idea for ying jow lin kuil. The YKM version has many moves that resemble the dragon system in this form!!

hope this helps

FT:)

pak mei
3 Form egale claw from hawwaii is ying jow lin kuil??

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Ying Jow Nim Kiu

Ao Qin,

The Pak Mei set is called Ying Jow to confuse people of the origin. It supposedly is a dragon form with only a few changes. I don’t know the name of the dragon form it resembles. But a good friend from yellowknife also told me it comes from Lung Ying Mor Kiu as FT stated.

Pakmei,

I don’t think this set is related to a special lineage. As it comes from Cheung Lai Cheung I think many lineages have this form.

Regards, Lau

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Lau

I never said the form was of a special lineage.

What I meant is that some schools have the same forms but in a slightly different order.

Under my Sifu, this form is the 3rd out of 10 hand forms.

Regards

Dave

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Hi Dave,

I misinterpreted your post. If this is your 3rd form than I guess number one is jek bo and number two is sap ji kuen?

Do you also have a two person set with this form? We have one which is linked to this form as I was told.

Regards Lau

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Stress… it’s no good for you!

Hi Lau,

Actually I made a mistake (under a lot of pressure here at work at the moment!). Ying Jow Lin Kuil is our 2nd form…Sorry!

Our forms go in the order of:

  1. Jik Bo Kuen.
  2. Ying Jow Lin Kuil Kuen.
  3. Sup Jee Kuen.
  4. Gow Bo Tuew.
  5. Saam Lahm (2 man fighting set)
  6. Say Mun Ba Gwa Kuen.
  7. Saam Mun Choi.
  8. Chi San (2 man fighting set)
  9. Sup Baa Morr Kuil Kuen.
  10. Man Fu Chut Lum.

Regards

Dave

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Posting at work??? sounds familiar…

I also learned two two person sets, but I don’t know the names.
5) Saam Lahm (2 man fighting set) Is this the set from lung ying where one side has a lot of kicks and the other side none? Is the side with no kicks at one time crouched and does he need to catch the foot of the adversary (who stamps down on him) in his hands?

  1. Chi San (2 man fighting set) Is this the set where both sides have to lie on the ground one time and have to do a kick to the knees?

Regards, Lau

Ps, stress IS bad for you! Let me know if you ever get to Amsterdam, we can have yam cha and a beer!

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2 man fighting forms

Lau,

Saam Lahm (3 cuddles / embraces) is exactly the one you were talking about. The defense side has the most kicks in it definitely. Not quite sure where it came from (Loong Yin, Lee Gar, etc), it doesn’t really matter now because it is practised with a Pak Mei principles nowadays.

Chi San (Sticky Body) again you are correct in your description, however this form is more to do with close quarter fighting - which is pretty much a speciality of the Pak Mei system.

Actually this form is absolutely evil, when it is explained and applied properly (under the strict supervision of the Sifu). This form is very easy to get carried away with! Requires a lot of trust from your sparring partner when beginning to practise this form.

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I was taught the Dragon pattern(Ying Jow Lin Kuil Kuen)
left handed to begin with,as time went by most of us reversed
each pattern to get a better feel and balance to connect the right/left side brain to body and reflex.

Dragon stood out for me in a special way because it put more to work my unpolluted left hand(I’m a right hander).

The order of patterns taught when I trained hard were as follows,
some are taught in different order now.

  1. Sam Mun
    2)Short Cross
    3)Sup Jee Kuen(Flower/Cross set)
    4)Ying Jow Lin Kuil Kuen(Dragon)
    5)Staff
    6)Jik Bo Kuen(Straight Foward)
    7)Gow Bo Tuew(Nine Step Push)
    8)Sun’s Crutch’s(Tonfa/PR-24)
    9)Internal Sam Mun(I don’t know the Chinese name for this set)
    10)Sup Baa Mor Kuil
    11)Man Fu Chut Lum(Fierce Tiger out of the Jungle)
    12)Five Elements???

Elbow subset
12 step Chi-Kung

This is by no means a complete layout as its been refined in order and the way the patterns are taught,but the core remains the same.

I have heard that CLC called the System he learned from the Monk “Ngor mei-Shaolin”(Omei?) which he latter changed to what we know now as “White Eyebrow”.

I wonder if he was the only non-monk that learned this system,and if theres any one in China that survived Mao’s plunders are they as solid as CLC’s branch?

If so,what sets do they teach??

What happened to the Monks that taught CLC??
Did they teach other monks??
If they did,where are they now?
Did they make it through alive?
Did they pass the art down to other monks?

Will the missing Monks please stand up??

Those in the back please tell that monk doing flips and cartwheels
that we are here to find the his brothers that know this “Forbidden Style”

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What About Lin Sang

What about Chuk Fat Wans other student Lin Sang I believe that Lin Sang also taught Pak Mei to selected students but they are not coming forth with there information i dont believe that story that he was just told to teach religion even if he did i still think there are lineages that come from Lin Sang , Maybe his art was called Ngor Mai shaolin or whatever that name was ,lineages of what could be like Cheung Lai Chuans Pak Mei could have come from Lin Sang and still be very similar coming from the same source Chuk Fat Wan. Just a thought to think about Lin Sang is a good possibility for other lineages what ever happened to Lin Sang ?

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There still is amongst the Emei(NgorMei) martial arts a ‘Shaolin’ style. Known as Emei Shaolin it bears no resemblance nor in principle or motion to Bai Mei. It was derived from the Northern shaolin arts around 250-200 years ago.

The Lin Sang group are two types :
Those that proclaim that lineage but the content is as CLC (so doubtful). The others that do not resemble CLC content but repositioned sets, in fact this group is also doubtful.

Monks practising arts are not as popular nowadays as then :). Also many styles were unamed, secret or forbidden at one stage or another.

At the moment I have not yet been able to summarise the research clearly but it shows that predominately CLC is the key regardless of lineage claim. One day I will put it together amongst a million other things that have to be done.

I have also met one old gentlemen that practised martial arts originating from the same temple as CLC ‘was said to have studied in’ but there was only two sets. Each very different, one did bear resemblance to GBT/MFCL/YJLK but everything was repositioned and reorganised. THe other set seemed to be likesome moving exercises (qigong in nature). It was gentler and less esplosive but it was most likely influenced by the age of the gentlemen.

Regards
Wu

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BecauseI like Tn’s Einstein quote so much

“I want to know how Cheung Lai Chun created Bai Mei Quan. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon nor the lineage .I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details.”

Albert & Friends :smiley:

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Lo Maan Pai

The pak mei was influenced by lo maan pai so maybe the connection here. Is lo maan pai hakka or both hakka and other dialect/peoples of china?

nice to here your still alive shaolin master!

FT:D