[QUOTE=HardWork8;888635]
I believe that there are a few of those around in You Tube. )[/QUOTE]
Ok, let’s see one. As a ‘real kungfu man’ you must have a few ready to go.
[QUOTE=HardWork8;888635]
Yes there are plenty of those about )[/QUOTE]
Ok, post 'em, clown.
[QUOTE=unkokusai;888633]Wow, when did I say that, Basement Boy?[/QUOTE]
You “said” that you don’t practise kung fu when you didn’t deem your “kung fu training” important enough to put in your profile, next to the rasslin’.
You say you don’t like kung fu every time you show contempt for the traditional methods as you are ignorant of the fact that when you take out the traditional and holistic training out of kung fu, then you end up with Glorified Kickboxing!
There, I hope that I have cleared up your confusion Drool Boy, now keep on taking your medication!
[QUOTE=unkokusai;888637]So you have no vids at all? Ok, what about the one I posted?[/QUOTE]
That wrestler had some scary nipples.
[QUOTE=unkokusai;888638]Ok, let’s see one. As a ‘real kungfu man’ you must have a few ready to go.[/quote]
The object of the exercise is for you to go to YouTube and search for those videos and watching them to your satisfaction without hanging around here in the kung fu forum making an idiot out of yourself.
Talking of exercise, searching for the videos might to that thing between your cabbage ears that you call a ‘brain’ a whole lot of good.
in regards to breathing…
[QUOTE=Mr Punch;888444]How exactly do you breathe through/into your dantien?[/QUOTE]
physiologically, the rationale behind breathing with the dantien (and I assume that the one in question is the lower dantien - there are three - you can “breathe” into all of them, so to speak; in fact, going a bit further, one can even “breathe” down to /with the soles of the feet :eek:) is in order to maximize diaphragmatic excursion during inhalation, since, if one is an upper chest breather, one is using accessory muscles of respiration excessively (scalenes, sternocleidomastoid, upper traps, pecs), and one will actually inhibit the degree to which respiratory diaphragm can contract; this is not uncommon for many people who live in a chronic “stress response” phase; so, for qigong purposes at least, the concept helps shift awareness to where you want RD to go, so to speak;
now, if is one doing “natural” (Buddhist) breathing, then the awareness typically stays in the dantien throughout the entire length of the breath; if one is doing “reverse” (Taoist) breathing, then the awareness travels a bit differently (if one has opened the Microcosmic Orbit, for example, it can follow that pathway);
[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;888448]The diaphragm contracts and pulls downward, while the intercostals contract and and allow the ribs to move farward and slightly upward.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mr Punch;888457]the diaphragm pulls down, and the intercostals expand the ribcage, not expand the lungs as such… didn’t know about the the upward direction: is that to counter the diaphragm pulling down and so cause the expansion[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;888459] The intercostals and the diaphragm work together to expand the cavity, thus decreasing pressure in the intrathoracic space. The negative pressure vacuum in association with the greater atmospheric pressure is what allows us to fill our lungs when we inspire.[/QUOTE]
RD first contracts on a relatively stable ribcage, causing the central part, the dome, to descend; this movement is limited by both upward pull of mediastinal elements (stuff in the thorax that attaches to it) and resistance of the abdominal contents below (which will vary depending on if one does “natural” or “reverse” breathing); once the RD has stopped descending, then the central part is stable, so when the fibers contract they are now elevating the mid to lower ribs, expanding the thoracic cavity (the rib movement is triaxial, resulting in a hard to describe but easy to demonstrate motion); also, the external intercostals, braced on a stable thoracic spine, will elevate the ribs; levator costarum and paraspinals are also involved then all the accessories as well (46 muscles in total!);
this is a good general descrption of respiratory biomechanics; this is about ribs specifically
the best pictures are in Kapandji, Physiology of the Joints, Vol. 3
[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;888464]For those of you with young children. Ever watch them breathing? (obviously when they aren’t tearing all over the room)…Children rely more heavily on their diaphragm than adults as their intercostals aren’t as developed. On the other hand adults tend to utilize the intercostals more and the diaphragm can atrophy (to a degree)[/QUOTE]
never heard this bit about the RD atrophy; I would suggest that the degree of neuronal activation would decrease as opposed to actual atrophy of muscle fibers;
[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;887819]Interesting enough, just today I witnessed a Physical Therapist explaining this very concept of dan tien breathing to his patient, in proper medical terms of course.[/QUOTE]
I’m surprised a PT was even talking about it, TBH! They barely mentioned anything about this stuff in school, and most PT’s are so obsessed with the lumbar vertebrae that they don’t even consider how the RD impacts things like low back pain (which is funny, considering how treating RD will often clear up dysfunction of the head, neck, low back, etc.)
[QUOTE=HardWork8;888640]You “said” that you don’t practise kung fu[/QUOTE]
That’s true, I don’t. And I - JUST LIKE YOU - don’t have enough experience in that area to lay claim to it.
I’m honest and you are a pathetic wannabe.
Wrong
[QUOTE=HardWork8;888640]
You say you don’t like kung fu every time you show contempt for the traditional methods as you are ignorant of the fact that when you take out the traditional and holistic training out of kung fu, then you end up with Glorified Kickboxing!
![/QUOTE]
… :rolleyes:
Oh now you are interpreting? :rolleyes: Try not to hurt yourself, Basement Boy.
[QUOTE=HardWork8;888641]That wrestler had some scary nipples.[/QUOTE]
So you have nothing to say? I thought so.
[QUOTE=HardWork8;888643]The object of the exercise is for you to .[/QUOTE]
No, no, no Basement Boy, it’s not an exercise, it’s a simple question. Can you provide any vids or not?
I guess not…
[QUOTE=unkokusai;888648]So you have nothing to say?[/quote]
Not to you Drool Boy.
You “thought”? Now I have seen everything! Who would have guessed, unkokusai would actually manage to think (even if it was a brief experience).
It sends shivers down my spine and even my dantien. Unkokusai had a thought, WOW!
By the way, if you want to know what dantien is then don’t hesitate to ask Cjurakpt and I am sure that he won’t hesitate to write you a six page explanation.:rolleyes:
After all the BS about “You don’t understand!”
Again, you have nothing to say…
[QUOTE=unkokusai;888649]No, no, no Basement Boy, it’s not an exercise, it’s a simple question. Can you provide any vids or not?[/QUOTE]
Of course I can Drool Boy, but I WON’T! I wouldn’t give you the time of the day! There now go to YouTube and play a little.
[QUOTE=HardWork8;888658]Of course I can , but I WON’T! .[/QUOTE]
Yes, of course, that’s it. :rolleyes:
Where have we heard that kind of empty excuse before…? Something about some kind of somebody competing in somekind of competition or other… so hard to remember…
[QUOTE=HardWork8;888469]By the way, it would be nice if you at least attempt to participate in the discussion at hand or otherwise just leave before the moderator gets fed up again![/QUOTE]
There’s a moderator?
They sure keep a low profile don’t they?
[QUOTE=cjurakpt;888645]physiologically, the rationale behind breathing with the dantien (and I assume that the one in question is the lower dantien - there are three - you can “breathe” into all of them, so to speak; in fact, going a bit further, one can even “breathe” down to /with the soles of the feet :eek:) is in order to maximize diaphragmatic excursion during inhalation, since, if one is an upper chest breather, one is using accessory muscles of respiration excessively (scalenes, sternocleidomastoid, upper traps, pecs), and one will actually inhibit the degree to which respiratory diaphragm can contract; this is not uncommon for many people who live in a chronic “stress response” phase; so, for qigong purposes at least, the concept helps shift awareness to where you want RD to go, so to speak;
now, if is one doing “natural” (Buddhist) breathing, then the awareness typically stays in the dantien throughout the entire length of the breath; if one is doing “reverse” (Taoist) breathing, then the awareness travels a bit differently (if one has opened the Microcosmic Orbit, for example, it can follow that pathway);[/QUOTE]
Hey, glad you jumped in. Hehe I was hoping I could bait you out.
RD first contracts on a relatively stable ribcage, causing the central part, the dome, to descend; this movement is limited by both upward pull of mediastinal elements (stuff in the thorax that attaches to it) and resistance of the abdominal contents below (which will vary depending on if one does “natural” or “reverse” breathing); once the RD has stopped descending, then the central part is stable, so when the fibers contract they are now elevating the mid to lower ribs, expanding the thoracic cavity (the rib movement is triaxial, resulting in a hard to describe but easy to demonstrate motion); also, the external intercostals, braced on a stable thoracic spine, will elevate the ribs; levator costarum and paraspinals are also involved then all the accessories as well (46 muscles in total!);
this is a good general descrption of respiratory biomechanics; this is about ribs specifically
the best pictures are in Kapandji, Physiology of the Joints, Vol. 3
This is why. Thanks for the more detailed description.
I’m surprised a PT was even talking about it, TBH! They barely mentioned anything about this stuff in school, and most PT’s are so obsessed with the lumbar vertebrae that they don’t even consider how the RD impacts things like low back pain (which is funny, considering how treating RD will often clear up dysfunction of the head, neck, low back, etc.)
Yeah he did though. That wasn’t the only topic he covered though interestingly enough, LBP was part of the patients complaint. The PT basically covered posture, some exercises and the breathing as a combined effort to strengthen the core. The patient had some issues and posture was a big part of it and muscles that had not been getting enough use. They had to get the muscles back up to par before they could do anything else otherwise you know…they just gonna find themselves back at the beginning. It took me as a surprise cuz you know how health care is now days. Usually its just do this to fix that, please schedule another appointment for any other issues. He actually took the time to work through everything. Which was nice for me, cuz I was next to see that same PT
[QUOTE=cjurakpt;888645]physiologically, the rationale behind breathing with the dantien (and I assume that the one in question is the lower dantien - there are three - you can “breathe” into all of them, so to speak; in fact, going a bit further, one can even “breathe” down to /with the soles of the feet :eek:) is in order to maximize diaphragmatic excursion during inhalation, since, if one is an upper chest breather, one is using accessory muscles of respiration excessively (scalenes, sternocleidomastoid, upper traps, pecs), and one will actually inhibit the degree to which respiratory diaphragm can contract; this is not uncommon for many people who live in a chronic “stress response” phase; so, for qigong purposes at least, the concept helps shift awareness to where you want RD to go, so to speak;
now, if is one doing “natural” (Buddhist) breathing, then the awareness typically stays in the dantien throughout the entire length of the breath; if one is doing “reverse” (Taoist) breathing, then the awareness travels a bit differently (if one has opened the Microcosmic Orbit, for example, it can follow that pathway);
RD first contracts on a relatively stable ribcage, causing the central part, the dome, to descend; this movement is limited by both upward pull of mediastinal elements (stuff in the thorax that attaches to it) and resistance of the abdominal contents below (which will vary depending on if one does “natural” or “reverse” breathing); once the RD has stopped descending, then the central part is stable, so when the fibers contract they are now elevating the mid to lower ribs, expanding the thoracic cavity (the rib movement is triaxial, resulting in a hard to describe but easy to demonstrate motion); also, the external intercostals, braced on a stable thoracic spine, will elevate the ribs; levator costarum and paraspinals are also involved then all the accessories as well (46 muscles in total!);
this is a good general descrption of respiratory biomechanics; this is about ribs specifically
the best pictures are in Kapandji, Physiology of the Joints, Vol. 3
never heard this bit about the RD atrophy; I would suggest that the degree of neuronal activation would decrease as opposed to actual atrophy of muscle fibers;
I’m surprised a PT was even talking about it, TBH! They barely mentioned anything about this stuff in school, and most PT’s are so obsessed with the lumbar vertebrae that they don’t even consider how the RD impacts things like low back pain (which is funny, considering how treating RD will often clear up dysfunction of the head, neck, low back, etc.)[/QUOTE]
in the mist of crap, you get this gem, which will probably be over looked.
[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;888664]Hey, glad you jumped in. Hehe I was hoping I could bait you out. [/QUOTE]
:mad: curthes - foiled again…
[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;888664]This is why. Thanks for the more detailed description.[/QUOTE]
de nada; I actually have a whole “presentation” I wrote on it, but it’s in semi-outline form, wouldn’t try to post it here; PM me an e-mail, I can forward it to you if you want
[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;888664]Yeah he did though. That wasn’t the only topic he covered though interestingly enough, LBP was part of the patients complaint. The PT basically covered posture, some exercises and the breathing as a combined effort to strengthen the core. The patient had some issues and posture was a big part of it and muscles that had not been getting enough use. They had to get the muscles back up to par before they could do anything else otherwise you know…they just gonna find themselves back at the beginning. It took me as a surprise cuz you know how health care is now days. Usually its just do this to fix that, please schedule another appointment for any other issues. He actually took the time to work through everything. Which was nice for me, cuz I was next to see that same PT[/QUOTE]
I guess there are a few out there…
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;888670]in the mist of crap, you get this gem, which will probably be over looked.[/QUOTE]
or, more likely, ridiculed as either being jargon or d1ck-waving :rolleyes:
cjurakpt, you’ve covered the bio-mechanical / physiological basis for lower dan tien breathing but can you expand on the “why”?
Is it really more than getting more oxygen into the lungs/blood?