obssession with competition

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
61

Here’s one more plus:

Competition is a reality check. I know exactly what I can do and exactly what needs work. I know if I’d worked on getting my free hand on the guy’s f’in gi/neck in a triangle, hard, I wouldn’t have lost in the finals this weekend, because I would have kept him there.

By contrast we met a guy who decided to compete this weekend who does some sort of–something. He was a brown belt and wanted to enter the brown belt division. One of my acquaintances looked straight at him and said–you’d better enter the white belt division.

He looked shocked and snotty and said “But I’m a BROWN belt.”

He did finally enter the purple belt division. And lost in 20 secs by takedown, mount, and armbar.

Competition breeds humility. Those that don’t believe it, have probably never competed. *******s are *******s, and they’d be that way if they played at creative breaking or chess.

62

MP- A straight shot, why is it you compete?

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For fun. And because I recognize that to be the best you can be you have to go against the best. Untested greatness ain’t all that great.

But mostly for fun. Ask a writer why they write.

Paraphrasing TR–Life goes to those who strive rather than those who sit on their ass and criticize.

64

Sounds cool to me. So you don’t do this for profit?! :eek:

By the way, do you BJJ types have a network of some sort that might be able to help me find an instructor around here locally?

65

I cant believe I haven’t added to this thread… I have a total blank… but yeah… its fun… addictive… rewarding… and painful… even for the armchair MAist…

66

www.mma.tv

Ask on the BJJ forum.

Nope. Everything I’ve done, I’ve paid for. If I can put together some big wins though, I’ll start looking for a sponsorship.

67

My view on this subject:

Historically CMA’ists fought both in competitions and challenge matches. I know this is not earth shattering news, but it’s a way we achieve many things that we practice for, so I don’t understand the shame in it. It’s a way to understand our craft better. You can listen to Mozart, you can play Mozart’s music, or you can be Mozart.

If you take a look at all the reletive philisophical ideas that most CMA stem from, you cannot reach step 4 and 5 without maximizing steps 1-3. To me, this means that you must take your body, your emotions, and your mind to their extreme in order to make serious break throughs on your spiritual side.

If you do not want to acheive this as a marialist, there are other ways, but it still is the same, ultimately. Sitting in the lotus position for hours is physically painfull, takes a great deal of concentration to go through your meditations, is only usefull if you have a certain direction, and if you make a conscious breakthrough, it is usually emotionally taxing, etc.

Some, if not most martialists do not include a conscious spirituality into their craft. That is their choice, who cares? I will say that most martialist have an inkling that what they do at the time during competition is an “enlightening” experience. Why, because at some point, if not the whole time they are competing, they are to some degree “present”. If they lose this consciousness, they will lose as well most likely.

I do, however, believe that competition can only take you so far, even as a martial artist. That’s why many who rely only on competition to drive them will ultimately achieve only so much, and will eventually quit, or become strictly teachers to maintain a connection to a certain “feeling”.

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Red,

'02 West Metro Boxing MN Brooklyn Park
Minnesota Martial Arts Academy MN Brooklyn Park
West Metro Boxing & Martial Arts MN Brooklyn Park

69

LPY - “believe that competition can only take you so far, even as a martial artist. That’s why many who rely only on competition to drive them will ultimately achieve only so much, and will eventually quit, or become strictly teachers to maintain a connection to a certain “feeling”.”

Can you explain this a little more please? I am not sure exactly what you are getting at here. I say this because as martial artist we seek to hone our combatitive skills, generally speaking. Now with proper training, exersise, and competition, whether it be official or just in your school or around town in other not so organized events, what else could you get or where else could you go with it?

70

You’re right R5, it was vague.

I mean, and hope you have a reference to “self mastery”. This is a loaded term, and can give you my email to discuss it further if you’d like, as this may kill this thread.

71

LPY - feel free to email me at jabradley"nospam"@deloitte.com and we can discuss. I think these guys here on this board would be interested as well though.

It is a loaded term and I think I am with you, but why don’t you go ahead and explain what you mean anyway?

72

actually, it sounds very pertinent to this thread. i’d like to see it too, if you don’t specifically object to posting it here.

stuart b.

73

On Topic: Yeah Competition has its place, or at least testing your skills and talent, etc DEF. have their place in any real martial art. I am also a big believer in fighting and putting yourself on the line if you are going to be a serious MA. That is what martial is all about, and what it was about for any serious combative student, be they Samurai, Olympic Wrestlers, Grapplers, etc.

Now, to address something else…?Chinese martial arts are dead!!?

Again I am forced to bring up the example of Mas Oyama. In fact I will post a handy link for you below. Can you honestly say that if anyone worth his salt in chinese martial arts went and trained the way Oyama did, they wouldnt be able to wreak major havoc on 95% of the population? In my view sanshou and mma work because they are good no nonsense systems, and you can train 6 hours a day and kick some ass! However a lot of CMA are really really in depth, usually to the point where unless one trains for 10-20 years or 6 hours a day or more, they dont really even have a prayer of using all that stuff, its just too much. BUT IF YOU DID TRAIN THAT MUCH, YOU HAVE THE TOOLS TO DEAL WITH PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING. Again, How do you plan on fighting someone that can kill a bull with one punch, shake trees with their punches, and take on 270+ challengers without losing? Think its lame chinese legend? Wrong…its the story of Mas Oyamas life, and it happened fairly recently. Search for his name on google and tell me you could take him.

http://www.fightingmaster.com/masters/oyama/

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How do you plan on fighting someone that can kill a bull with one punch

Widely rumored to have been fixed.

and Kimura could have thrashed him. :wink:

75

However a lot of CMA are really really in depth, usually to the point where unless one trains for 10-20 years or 6 hours a day or more, they dont really even have a prayer of using all that stuff, its just too much. BUT IF YOU DID TRAIN THAT MUCH, YOU HAVE THE TOOLS TO DEAL WITH PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING.

Why would you want to sweat it out for that long just to have the hope that it MIGHT work? If someone tells me that it takes years before what they’re teaching is applicable, I’m walking out the door.

Also, why would one want to train a bunch of stuff that he knows he’ll never use?

Even if a ten year, 6 hour a day training regimen paid off, how does that even compare to another art’s two year, two hour a day regimen that garners the same or better results?

Which is better?

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from mas’ 11 principles or soemthing on that site:

  1. The true essence of the Martial Way can only be realized through experience. Knowing this, learn never to fear its demand.
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Why would you want to sweat it out for that long just to have the hope that it MIGHT work? If someone tells me that it takes years before what they’re teaching is applicable, I’m walking out the door.

Exactly! When I could take a young man, get him in the gym 3x a week and in 6 months of boxing be fully confident that he can punch well enough to hold his own. and he still can lead a normal life

good to see you again watchman.

78

Well, youngs ones competive fighters, obviously duno the depths of wide academics caliber here display that i just say: “I am better of you”. Time spend in competive is best if you kick the table many times again to stretch the pants. Competive makes you have small boner as a roll model to proper reality fighting and correct maner.

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My sifu was born in 1917 in mainland China, was raised by a Buddhist monk in a Buddhist monastery, he is about as real a Chinese martial artist as you can find left on the planet.

He was sure into fighting, and fighting for REAL. Unlike 99.5% of the current crop of “martial artists” out there, he used his skills to KILL PEOPLE, because China wasn’t such a nice place back then and it was his job, he was in the army

He was also into “competition”, fought in provincial free sparring championships and all military championships, made us put on the boxing gloves and spar. He didn’t want an illusions or BS, actually, some of the stuff he said about people claiming to do Chinese martial art if I repeated here would get me banned for life

Sometime after my teacher’s generation, several generations have come to the conclusion that TCMA is some sort of esoteric basket weaving, in which we eat granola, get in touch with our centers and feel good about ourselves.

Frankly, it makes me SICK

MMA, the UFC, Pride, etc is NO DIFFERENT than the many, many, many challenge matches which were part of TCMA for generations before the afore mentioned watering down and new age feel good blah blah yin yang…

deal with it

80

Alright then,

I’m referencing the 5 element, ba gua, and yin and yang theories in terms of self mastery for this. If you’re not familiar, research it, as I don’t have complete knowledge, and don’t want to fill the database.

If you compete against someone for a goal, you have to have “fire”. Fire burns out pretty fast. If you fail or succeed at your goal, you will quit this particular “competition” either way, as you will eventually burn out your desire for this acheivement. I make that assumption based on human nature. Even if you have a strong will, this drive will only last for so long. Again, as a MA you can’t skip this step. You have to be interested in perfecting your physical body, perfecting techique, diet, etc, and competing will give you this desire (the yang). Some may refer to this as jing to some extent as well. At a higher level, you can train your instincts. You will get hints of the next type of training when competing or trying to acheive this goal.

What’s left after this? If you’re interested in the spiritual side, you know you’ve just begun. Development of Qi is usually next. Now, I’m not talking about qi blasts or hokie things. Maybe a better way to explain is understanding nature, both externally and internally. Slowing down your mind, understanding the rhythms of things inside and out of you, and connecting to them. This is acheived through some type of meditative process. Now, you can say what does this have to do with martial arts? At this point, the yin and yang benefits are reveiled in the intangibles, as they say in sports. Slowing down your mind slows down the situation and allows you to react more appropriately. Understanding the nature of the fighter you are matched with allows a certain ability to predict and/or direct a fight. Having control over many innate abilities all human’s posess but seldom use like tapping into your instinct give you an unexpected vigor. These things are all acheived through specific training, and lots of time dedicated to it. All of this is much more taxing than physical training. The body was meant to work and likes to do so. The mind is lazy, and takes a lot more effort to train.

The third step is shen, and honestly I don’t have much novice information to discuss it, and don’t want to give a disservice to it.

Anyway, self mastery implies not just physical development, but mental, instinctual, creative, emotional, and corporal development and control as well. Competition implies a specific desire or motivation that has a dead end. I hope to get your input on this, as that is why I’m giving mine. Thank you. Gotta run.
Take care