Where do non-competitors fit in todays martial arts scene?
We don’t
Re: If you don’t compete…
Originally posted by rogue
Where do non-competitors fit in todays martial arts scene?
Hmmm, not sure what you are asking.
AFAIK, the MAJORITY of MA are non-competitors may it be forms or fighting comps.
Neither do I think that the people entering competitions are the best either, the same way with ANY form of competition may it be beauty or whatever.
For me entering/winning competitions does not equal skill or understanding of the material.
There are many “crouching tiger, hidden dragon” Masters and practicioners out there.
Said that I took part in a competition last Sunday, didn’t even know that we were going to be judged till 30 min prior to the event.
:eek:
ahh the leather wearing vegetarians.
Well, I’m one of those much abused, limp-d!cked, beer gutted, uncommitted, Depends wearing hobbyists.
Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
Well, I’m one of those much abused, limp-d!cked, beer gutted, uncommitted, Depends wearing hobbyists.
Competion is just plain fun.
I’d forgotten a bit of the addiction till just earlier this month.
you don’t have to compete.
there shouldn’t be any pressure to compete.
and
no, you can’t use your super secret kung fu/karate/shuai jiao/bjj/muay thai/jeet kun do/shaolin do/old school fighting/boy scout staff/fairbain-applegate knife techniqes/tae kwon do/ninjitsu/capoeira/hwarangdo/taichi/bagua/xingyi/chikung/judo/kicheondo/pencjatsilat ‘too deadly for competition’ moves but screww that shiat.
but, if you want to compete
find a school that competes in a decent venue train with them some and learn the ruleset. then see what you have that can work within that ruleset and see what you can do.
it’s really pretty simple, imho.
Personally, I have no problem with people who don’t wish to compete, and I even acknowledge that some may be decent fighters without having to train the way I do.
However, these same people should respect the fact that I wish to compete and recognize there are benefits as well as disadvantages to my choice of training. I’m sick of hearing that “sport” will not provide any sort of useful feedback and that one interpretation of how past masters must have practiced is the only way to gain the same skills.
If I can be pragmatic and see past the dogma, is it too much to hope for others to do the same?
Personally, I’d like to compete in the Kuo Shou. I like the rules, and the use of open finger gloves. It’s also geared for traditional Kung Fu practiioners. I think the Tai tzu would adapt quite redily to the format. It would also give me a good bench to test my ideas for the system to see if they are plausible or not.
Originally posted by CrippledAvenger
If I can be pragmatic and see past the dogma, is it too much to hope for others to do the same?
Unfortunately most people get the following shoved down their throats.
“If you don’t compete you will NEVER be prepared for …”
“How do you know it will work if you don’t test it in the ring.”
etc.
Kinda like the TCMA and MMA discussions on the Net.
Personally, I think that competition can provide a lot for the right people.
Some are very competetive and feel the need to test what they do, may it be work, MA or whatever.
Competition can also be used for setting goals to achieve.
It all depends on the practicioner and how he uses the available tools.
Originally posted by T’ai Ji Monkey
[B]
Unfortunately most people get the following shoved down their throats.
“If you don’t compete you will NEVER be prepared for …”
“How do you know it will work if you don’t test it in the ring.”
etc. [/b]
Which, essentially is the crux of the whole problem of the “sportive” vs. “Traditional” argument anyway. No-one likes having stuff forced down their throat. What you have to realize, LC, is that the TMAs are just as guilty of this as the MMA types. At the core, I think most (there’ll always be some outlying schmucks in any camp) MMA’s would readily admit that the venue isn’t about proving their particular practice superior, it’s about being accountable for the claims you make-- something that most legendary fighters out of Chinese history would tend to agree whole heartedly with. Hell, most challenge fights I head of ended quite non-fatally, so I’m guessing the concept isn’t very far removed from tradition in the slightest.
[b] Personally, I think that competition can provide a lot for the right people.
Some are very competetive and feel the need to test what they do, may it be work, MA or whatever.
Competition can also be used for setting goals to achieve.
It all depends on the practicioner and how he uses the available tools. [/B]
I still think you’re not quite grasping what I mean by competition. It’s not really about winning or losing (except to the fans), but for most fighters, figuring out how they can make their training work and work consistantly in as close an approximation to live hand-to-hand combat as humanely possible.
That reason, to figure out how I can adapt to fighting under pressure and against a determined opponent, is why I’m training for the Arnolds. I could care less if I win or lose, but if I can pull just 3 throws off while in pain and under duress, I’ll consider myself satisfied.
CA.
I am not disagreeing.
If you make a claim than you need to back it up.
Personally, I have never heard anybody saying that “what they do is too dangerous”, etc.
Maybe the MA scene is different here or I am simply not in touch with that side of it.
I understand what you are saying about competition, hence, my last sentence of using the available tools.
For me there are many ways to test your skill and competition is simply one of them.
Here’s te way I see it. If you want to be able to use your art, you must compete for a period of time. Competition does not mean it must be the UFC, or Pride, or Pro San Shou or Muay Thai. It doesn’t even have to be in public. You can compete within your own school.
In Shuai Chiao, te ability gained from competition is know as Shuai Kung. It’s the ability to pull off your throw against anyone at anytime. It comes from lots and lots of free wrestling.
I think the problem is that a lot of people think they can learn how to fight without fighting. That they can gain a useable grasp of their art without ever facing the risk of a busted lip, a black eye, a broken bone, or a badly bruised ego. This is just not true.
Competition not only provides a venue to gain the Gung Fu of fighting, it gives you a very good gauge of where you stand. I can handle a lot of amateurs, but had my @ss handed to me by a Muay Thai guy a few weeks ago. It let me know how much harder I need to work.
That being said, no one is going to be out there competing their whole life. It’s something you do and then move on. If you don;t want to compete, that’s cool. Just understand that there will be limitations as to how good you can become.
WD.
Great post and I fully agree especially with the following:
It doesn’t even have to be in public. You can compete within your own school.
Many styles and kwoons hold internal competitions between schools and different branches.
My style lists “San Shou” as an integral part for reaching fighting skill.
We normally only go there after we have reached a good level of Tui Shou skill.
That’s cool Bro. If youlike to compete, I’d strongly advise you to check out other schools though. Even if it’s just to play. Some of the best things I have learned have been from the Boxing/BJJ/Muay Thai/MMA crowd. It’s a lot of fun and you can make some great friends.
And by the same token, playing with other schools only helps CMA get recognized and appreciated. I’ve changed my mind about a lot of my preconceptions of CMAs by playing with and learning some Shuai Chiao, as are some of the other MMA guys after they see WD.
You get much respect by dishing out a good beating and taking yours like a man in my circles, and thus far I’ve been lucky to find gung fu guys interested in doing those two things.
Awww shucks, it’s not me. It’s the big
[size=7]BOOM[/size]
sound that you keep making when you hit the mat.
The Raise = best recruiting tool ever!
to be honest I feel that getting in the ring is an integral part of any martial art training. not even so much for developing your techniques (which does come into it but most places bar a lot of moves because they are quite dangerous, so it tends to be just throws/punches/kicks, not learning how to break someones arm on your leg) but to learn what it is like to be in a fight. how to read other people, how to react without just flailing your arms, how to keep control when the adrenalin is pumping- things that simply cannot be taught any other way.
Originally posted by Ikken Hisatsu
to be honest I feel that getting in the ring is an integral part of any martial art training. … things that simply cannot be taught any other way.
Are you talking the ring like in a tournament competition or a good sparring session?
Sparring is a tool that can be applied in a variety of intensity levels and for a range of benefits.