kung lek … on topic … isn’t pupee also about accepting others without judgement? realizing they have reasons for feeling the way they do and leaving it at that? not to the point where communication is dead, but in always leaving breathing room for the other side of the discussion. you seem to be as opinionated as most of the traditonal bashers (though not closed minded). not that i myself am not very opinionated, but i openly admit that im a terrible person making no effort to improve.
… i also want to make it clear that i dont think being opinionated is a bad thing. shows character in most cases. it just seems to directly contridict this wude stuff you preach.
yes, i am a little opinionated. in some cases without any grounds for being so, but it’s a forum, so you gotta start somewhere.
cheers
I agree with Kung Lek.
Actually, most people I know who are in the martial arts do as well.
Competition is like 0.0000000001 of what learning martial arts is about.
I have a student who, after training with me, went off his blood pressure medication at his doctor’s request.
THAT is what kung fu is all about.
Kung Lek;
Arguing that “most of the guys who do well at these competitions are professionals,” is overstating the case. Most of the guys who compete in MMA or in BJJ comps are closer to your 6 days a week fellow. I’m a prime example. I have a job, I train twice a day 6 days a week, and I compete regularly. I’ve never once gotten paid for what I do, and regularly shell out cash to do it. Our fighters are the same. One is a teacher, the other is a teacher in training, etc. Many from other schools train only one session per day, and also at our school, depending on their schedules.
Now, the guys who succeed at the TOP level are pros. But the other guys–9 to 5ers who do this stuff on the side. There is NO reason a 6 day a week guy with an itch to compete in MMA couldn’t do it.
Huang, I’m willing to bet any exercise would have helped his situation. Not detracting from what you do–just suggesting there may be nothing unique at work here.
Merryprankster - you are absoloutly right.
I’ve recently started to emerge from maintenance mode to full score training - and it feels great. I did it when I was younger, and I love it now. Of course in my day, there was no NHB, just San Da and back alley stuff. I marvel at the caliber of athletes being pulled into MMA, and me and my hearty little group would like to bring forward some good CMA skills.
Frankly, I don’t understand people who claim competition is not important. Sure there are things you can do when you are not fighting - coach, train for fun, train for health, but if you never fight - you are not doing a martial art. I’m surprised no one seems to note that first word - martial.
Most of the great players in CMA history loved to fight and practice thier skill. It is only recently that this has been seen as somehow unrealated to martial arts, which is wierd. Don’t you think?
Now, I’m not knocking people who won’t compete, but really, the best way to face yourself, and develop your training for practical use - is to use it against uncooperating opponents. Like I said above, if you really want to defeat yourself, the best way to do it is in the ring.
It doesn’t even have to be formal competition. Right now I just ‘play’ with friends. But it helps keep my skills real.
The failure to test your skills demonstrates a lack of confidence in your training. Or an ego that is afraid to lose. Both things that demonstrate the lie in the Qi hugging POV.
While I too, have been guilty of things like HKV said above - you can use training to improve people, that is a lucky side benefit. And actually you can get most of those benefits more efficiently and cheaper at a good gym. Really.
Please note - I don’t expect people to always be in the sparring mode - heck for the last five years my career was the most important thing - I trauined, but I was not the monster I was. That’s okay. But you MUST fight at some point if you want to have kung fu.
And I gotta tell you, I love getting back into it.
It doesn’t even have to be formal competition. Right now I just ‘play’ with friends. But it helps keep my skills real.
agreed, thats what i pretty much do nowadays when i cant train in class with my Sifu and others. its pretty fun 
MP: i respect you guys that organise your time to train so much and pay your way for events - back when i did full contact karate comps it was the same… that was one reason i stopped actually as there was NO governemnt funding for national and international comps and my family couldnt afford it 
I admire the skill that people who do compete have and develop, but again everyone has different reasons for training and different priorities… sure fighting skill is there but thats maybe not the most important to them. Right now as im coming out of depression and not trained in over 6 months most important is getting me back in shape, so thats why i do more stretching, qigong and basics.
dawood
Let’s face facts, a large part of us in the martial arts are competitive, and we can be found at the elite level of MMA all the way down to class sparring sessions. I’m not even close to the calbre or training of Merryprankster or STII, but I’ll seek out the best guys in my class to fight against. When all the schools get together I already had my eye on the guys I wanted to go against. Why else go to the gym and lift, or wake up early to work the heavy bag? Competition is one factor that drives some of us, be it making me train at class 4 1/2 hours weekly or Merryprankster 6 hours daily.
BTW Merryprankster, I 'm not putting myself in your league and I hope you don’t mind me dropping your name.
signed,
Rogue the toady.
yup agreed, training with others is just plain fun its not neccessarily competitive though, just sharing and enjoying training imo.
dawood
“many of the posters here are seemingly obssessed with ufc/pride/nhb/wwe etc etc. and claim on their heroes in these events.”
Is that any different from the posters here who are obsessed with their lineage and how their style’s founder was 500 - 0 in challenge matches and had awesome chi capabilities?
7* - its human nature, so i got no probs with either its only when it gets taken too far that it gets a bit difficult.
dawood
Originally posted by dezhen2001
[B]yup agreed, training with others is just plain fun
dawood [/B]
Have to agree there.
Competitiveness is a “mindset” not a particular skill or action.
For me having a competitive “mindset” diminshes the learning value of sparring, as the goal/outcome becomes more important than what it takes to get there.
Which is a big no-no in my style, and we are constantly reminded not to develop such a mindset as it will hinder our learning/growing progress.
1.) No brutality
2.) No Arrogance
3.) No Competing with others
4.) No Disrespect
5.) To work with your nature without competing
6.) Sheji Chongren:
“Giving oneself over to follow the Opponent”
7.) Fangsong:
“Open and peacful relaxation”
Just my thoughts.
Re: Back to the original post
Originally posted by awakenwired
[B]
I feel the average Joe cannot compete in these types of events. MMA training or otherwise. I personally would love to compete at that level but at this moment for me and every other average Joe it’s inconceivable. The possible injuries would cause me to not make it to work, eventually lose my job, and the time on the road would not make the boss, or the wife happy. I train 6 days a week, half at home, half in the kwoon, but because of my undeniable limitations due to everyday responsibilities I cannot compete at the level I ultimately wish, so the question comes up why do i train at all? I trust that you are all great martial atrist, and know that non of you really need me to answer that question. It would take too long. But I believe this is where the original posters point would come in. [/B]
I have to disagree there - I have several fighters at my school who compete in events like revolution and (soon) king of the cage. Also, quentin jackson is from my city, and he was another “average joe” you know how quentin got to pride? he decided he wanted to fight at a local event, so he did. some people heard about the amazing showing he had, and the next thing you know, Pride called him. His first pro fight ws against Sak and the rest is history. We train 4 - 5 days a week for about 3 hours per session. We all have jobs, and most have families. If you have the drive, it can be done. We have local events here, so they get plenty of amateur experience. to fight in an event in another city, they only have to take off for the weekend and maybe monday.
respect to you guys!
If you have the drive, it can be done.
sums it up nicely buddy
dawood
Originally posted by Laughing Cow
[B]
IMO, competitions will not give you the same level of detailed feedback as a good sparring session.
Why, in competitions you try to win/ beat your opponent and not learn from your experience.
Thus your aim/goal differ.[/b]
That will vary from person to person. I personally do it for the learning and for the fight itself - I don’t care about winning. matter of factly, I give my trophies and medals to my parents because my mother likes to display them at her house. IMO, competition is an excellent learning tool.
Plus, in addition you can sit down with your sparring partners and discuss what happened and share advise.
You can talk to your opponents after a match. Also, you can tape the matches, talk to your coaches, etc.
Originally posted by dezhen2001
[B]7* - its human nature, so i got no probs with either
dawood [/B]
yeah, that’s the way I feel about it too.
Sevenstar.
Couldn’t you get the same from an “open door” sparring session, with many different stylists attending??
This you could do on an even more regular basis than competition.
I just don’t see why those benefits have to come from a competition or what makes a competition superior to an open door sparring session.
because of the setting. you’re there, in front of people, adrenealine rushing, ready to go. It’s not the same in a non- competitive atmosphere. Also, how likely are you to get people to an open door session? take a judo or bjj tourney for instance. people will come from several states to compete. I seriously doubt they would travel across states for an open door training session. prizes tend to drive some people, to motivate them. the competition circuit gives you the opportunity to meet those
people.
Also, it’s been said in this thread that the “average joe” can’t put in the time it takes to compete. Well, I don’t want to compare skills with the average joe. I want to compare skills with someone who can hand my arse to me. That’s how I learn the most. I know there are non competitive types who can hand me my arse, but how likely am I to find them? with competition, I know I am going against people who train as hard as me or harder.
7*.
I hear what you are saying.
At the same time there were many places in olden day China that had an open door policy which was known and MA from all over the Empire came to attend and study without the lure of prize-money and a competition.
I think the difference between the MA of old and now is their mindset.
Just my thoughts, thanks, for your reply.