I currently study at a school that has been tainted with certain controversies in the past. I have been training there for a year, and feel I have made great progress, but am leery based on some experiences and what have been posted here. I was wondering if there is anyone out there that used to train at my school, and knows what the real deal is. I am also interested in finding a different school, just to see what the difference is. This was my first experience with any martial arts and didn’t really know what to expect.
my school
Welcome to our Forum Humanchild,
Controversies aside, what is important are your goals. Though you have not stated any, are they being met? If they are not, shop around and do a real thorough job of doing that before joining another school. Similar to draw what you see, look before you leap. Please do look well. And no, I am not a former student of that school.
mickey
I have some experience in training in a controversial style. 
I know nothing of your school other than what is on the website you posted. If this school is meeting your goals and expectations and not costing you more than you feel it is worth, then why change? If the controversey (politics, money, lineage, history, whatever it may be) is distracting you from your training, then go elsewhere. You are in an area full of great martial arts schools. Most important, do you feel like you can apply what you are taugth to defend yourself? (It might not be a goal, but it should be).
I did not want to rehash the controversies surrounding my school, which is why I did not give much information. I am really looking for someone who has been a student there and has moved on. In terms of my goals, I feel as I have gained a lot of strength, mental & psychical discipline. BUT, I feel a bit uncomfortable with some things. There is a “black belt program” which certain students get hand picked by the sifu to participate in. It is quite expensive and those involved aren’t supposed to talk about it with other students. This seems a bit sinister to me, but have nothing to compare it to. Also, we were never told anything about the history of the school, the sifu, or the forms. From what I have read, a lot of “traditional” kung-fu training is steeped in it’s history and is important in it’s practice. I train 4 times a week at 3 hours at a time. 12 hours a week is a lot to devote to something I intellectually know very little about. Also, there is no sparring or practical application of our techniques. One more thing, we are inundated with tons of material, a lot of which seems too advanced for a majority of the students. They “invite” (meaning invite people to spend more money) people to take weapon classes when they have less than 3 months of training under their belt. I am kind of torn. On one hand, I am challenged by the training and feel like I have made some personal progress. On the other, I am frustrated by the secrecy, lack of information, and practical application.
Yeah, Bo Law is certainly a controversial figure.
There are several people from NY here. Post an inquiry on the main board and you should get responses from lkfmdc, Ray Pina, etc…
Well, if you want the history, application, and sparring then you should go somewhere else. You obviously train hard at what you do.
From what I understand, what you are learning is modified (or not) Fu Jow Pai. Sifu Koh was either an instructor or similar under Either Sifu Wai Hong or Tak Wah Ng. The fact that you don’t train any free sparring is striking since Fu Jow Pai hosted some of the earliest kung fu tournies on the eastern U.S. including free sparring and full contact.
A couple schools off the top of my head that might be worth checking out:
http://www.sandatrainingsystems.com/
http://sifuchenying.com/
Send me a private message and all your questions will be answered.
Feel free to be as forthright as you want. I know the deal with this place.
Also if you post exactly what type of training you’re looking for, I can unbiasedly suggest many schools in NYC for you.
That’s where I’m located.
theres nothing wrong with controversial styles. im essentially learning bak shaolin eagle claw under master leung lee fu lineage. is it controversial? yes there has been a lot of controversy around it. am i happy with it? yes. it doesnt mean that your sifu isnt good. sigong fu is a warrior, and my sifu and sihings have used a lot of what they learn in the streets to protect themselves. so i know it works and im happy.
I (and Spite1) studied there. We left for the very same reasons you are struggling with. Talk to people that have been there and firsthand know what is going on. Don’t feel bad, you are coming to a conclusion in a year when it took me two and a half years to get my head right. I was blinded by my inclusion in the “double secret probabtion, black belt, instructor-to-be program there”. LOL Personally, I do not believe anything taught there is worth a dime and if you hope to gain fighting skills you are doing yourself a disservice. Don’t get trapped in the mentality that things will get better because it won’t.
Talk to spite1 about NYC schools, etc. We have seen them all in our search to find what was right for us. Figure out what you want in a school.
skeletons in the closet
Every school has some moducum of controversy. Every one. Some more than others, of course, but there’s controversy and politics wherever there’s humans and power. Sometimes, you have to view the controversies as an extracuricular test of your warrior skills. Read Sun Tzu, the 36 strategies, Go rin no sho, etc. Sometimes you got to move on to somewhere else. Whatever you do, don’t let controversy make you quit. Move on, move forward, but don’t quit. You can only quit if you decide that the warrior path is not your path. If you quit because of controversy, you’re not a warrior. If you’re a warrior, you find the peace in conflict.
I will say one thing…at all the other schools I’ve trained at or visited, I was treated with mega respect. Treated like a human.
No where aside from bo law have I witnessed an instructor with such a megolomaniacal complex.
The cult-like, no-questions-asked, ‘worship me’ atmosphere that that place exudes is really unprecedented.
I can only speculate as to why this is, but bottom line is - you won’t fall victim to that ANYWHERE else in NYC - as far as my experiences have shown me.
If you wanna train hard, in my opinion, you will be MUCH better off somewhere else. Go somewhere where you will truly benefit from your efforts. Go someplace that will answer your questions.
Yes, Humanchild, as you said previously, “I feel as I have gained a lot of strength, mental & psychical discipline”…ANY physical sport will give you that if you train hard in it. Ballet, yoga, football, tennis, gymnastics…
But if you are set in learning a “martial” art. Then you need to find a place that deals with all aspects of “martial” training.
Just because a school claims to train you in “martial” traditions, doesn’t mean they actually deliver that.
I’ll bet my life that if you take a well trained boxer on his off day, he will RIP through 80-90% of “martial” arts students today.
Because those people train like a true martial warrior should train. There are some kung fu schools that offer that type of training, but they are few and far between.
Gene, I would agree under normal circumstances but as I said it depends on what he wants.
If he wants to learn to fight (or even have any physical contact at speed), then leave. If he wants a school that doesn’t change uniforms quarterly and make the students buy them over and over, then leave. If he doesn’t want a school where you cannot ask questions of the sifu, then leave. If he wants a school that participates in tournaments, scratch that even look at other school demos or tournaments, then leave. If he wants a school where senior students stay, then leave. If you want a school that teaches the styles the sifu learned, then leave. (i.e. Lee Moy Shan = Wing Chun, Tony Lau = Hung Gar, Wai Hong & Tak Wah Eng = Fu Jow Pai, none of them are mantis, shaolin, etc. - knowing why he posted this on a Shaolin board)
I understand people want to believe & hope for the best but in this case I say rely on first hand experience. Trust me we have written a thesis on this place to purge the demons from our minds. We have talked to original students, etc. I do not want to go into it any further on a public board.
Sometimes a bad thing is a bad thing and not a necessary change of perspective.
Wow!! I can’t believe the response I have received from this topic. I have been trying to figure out how to quietly leave the school,( I am a competent adult, with a good job, education, self-esteem, blah, blah, blah) but am intimidated to the point where I feel like I need to come up with a lie to get out of training there. (I know how stupid and ridiculous this sounds) Anyway, I really appreciate feedback and was wondering if you guys (Din Gao or spite1) had any suggestions for good schools?
BTW: I noticed in the responses that I was referred to as “he” , this is not the case. 
I would check out Sifu Ross’ SanDa program if I lived in New York. I’ve always been curious to see his training.
It’s different for women
You got us on that one, Humanchild. 
Good for you.
Din Gao, I should clarify. When I said “don’t let controversy make you quit.” I meant “don’t quit martial arts.” That’s why I said “Move on, move forward.” I meant move on to another school.
Humanchild, if you’re intimidated to leave, that’s a really, really bad sign. All the more reason you should leave. Martial arts should never increase your sense of feeling intimidated. Quite the opposite, actually. I don’t say that to pass judgment on that school - to be honest, I don’t know the first thing about that school - it’s more about your relationship with that school. Sometimes the student doesn’t fit the school; sometimes the school doesn’t fit the student. In either case, move on until you find a place that doesn’t make you feel awkward about leaving. If a school has to intimidate a student to stay, that’s just wrong.
But don’t quit martial arts.
Sometimes it can take a lifetime to find a perfectly fitting school. Ultimately it’s not about the school. It’s about the quest.
Just order his DVD. It’s pretty good.
Yeah - that feeling of always thinking you are doing something wrong and having to walk on eggshells…it’s not healthy.
But I won’t go into another rant in this thread.
Here are some styles/sifu that come to mind in the NYC area that are worth checking out: no particular order
Pigua, Baji, etc… - Su Yu Chang
Lung Ying - Yip Wing Hong
Pak Mei - Kwong Man Fong
Hung Ga - Yee’s Hung Ga
Ying Jow Pai - Leung Shum
BaGua, Hsing Yi, etc… - Bond Chan
AT LEAST check out these schools.
But like GChing said - it really is the journey that will answer all of your questions.
You should check out as many schools as you can. And don’t ONLY look at Chinese martial arts.
Gene, I agree completely.
Humanchild, I realized my assumption after I submitted my reply. Sorry, my bad.
IMHO, If you want to stay in kung fu: Yip Wing Hong (Lung Ying), Su Yu Chang (Baji, Mantis, etc.), Bond Chan (Bagua/Hsing Yi), Kwong Man Fong (Pak Mei), Chan Kam Fai (Choy Lay Fai), and several others but I am drawing a blank right now.
If you want to look at other things; I could tell you of a few good Muay Thai, BJJ & MMA schools.