Ng chan wing chun

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
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1

hello,

i trained myself few times with ng chan in hong kong and in france (from where im native) when he came to visit us
i can confirm to you and to people interesting in wing chun that he was the more accomplished student of yip man ,to who he gave most of his knowledge and know how in wing chun,like the kicks.
authentic wing chun is not really what you see ,in the movements ,it is more what you dont see in the way to become free of the movements and to organise your strength regards your will
and thats the problem of wing chun today,because what people think of wing chun to be very efficient and impressive,they cannot achieve it against other syle more basic .
the reason is that they perfomed only movements ,and they teach only movements because nobody teached them the know how of wing chun
so ,in a way ,what people are practising today is not the authentic wing chun of leung chan or yip man
this wasnt the case of ng chan ,and of his closest student ki ping pun which one was living with him
Im open to any question or discussion
regards

2

[QUOTE=MOSHE;1003056]Im open to any question or discussion
regards[/QUOTE]

I would hope you are as you may have just offended quite a lot of people here! :rolleyes: (Don’t worry I don’t get offended easily!)

Here’s a few questions for you:

Are there any further resources available on your teachers story? Apart from this one http://www.wingchunkyn.com/

Have you ever trained in other Wing Chun schools? Or other Martial Arts for that matter? And for how long? With who?

Lastly, how would you explain the differences you suggest in more detail?

3

there is no really web support on ng chan activity
but people like po kin wah ,leon tin ,moy yat and others knew for sure that this discret man had a different approach than them.few of them was trying to ontain technics fron him
i have anyway some pictures that i can put on the site
i have been practising for more than 20 years ,and began by wing chun from vietnam ,than wing chun from china ,and met several sifu ,that the reason im direct in my way to describe it .when i made contact with the arms of ng chan and ki ping pun ,nobody had such strength ,sensation ,energy;i understoos how a women like wing chun could defeat men experimented in fighting.
i dont want to offend anybody and plus im not selling any commercial but people who want to be objectives have to ask them this question :
let say that what you see in a movie where people are perfoming wing chun is the reality
ask yourself if a women practising the same way as you ,could perform in a such impressive way and defeat people from karate ,hung gar etc …
people are mistaking on one point ,to be soft during shi sao doent mean to be like light in contact and than physical when you want to enter
how a women could do that !
thats one part of the know how of wing chun ,both man and women have to have access to the same form of power ,there is no difference in the energy coming from a man or a women
thats wing chun
so if you train with women ,ask yourself if its possible for them to defeat you ?
and you get the answer on the quality on wing chun your are practising
thats not women who have to train like man but men to have access to a more natural strength of women
that the origine of the style

4

answer about ng chan

there is no really web support on ng chan activity
but people like po kin wah ,leon tin ,moy yat and others knew for sure that this discret man had a different approach than them.few of them was trying to ontain technics fron him
i have anyway some pictures that i can put on the site
i have been practising for more than 20 years ,and began by wing chun from vietnam ,than wing chun from china ,and met several sifu ,that the reason im direct in my way to describe it .when i made contact with the arms of ng chan and ki ping pun ,nobody had such strength ,sensation ,energy;i understoos how a women like wing chun could defeat men experimented in fighting.
i dont want to offend anybody and plus im not selling any commercial but people who want to be objectives have to ask them this question :
let say that what you see in a movie where people are perfoming wing chun is the reality
ask yourself if a women practising the same way as you ,could perform in a such impressive way and defeat people from karate ,hung gar etc …
people are mistaking on one point ,to be soft during shi sao doent mean to be like light in contact and than physical when you want to enter
how a women could do that !
thats one part of the know how of wing chun ,both man and women have to have access to the same form of power ,there is no difference in the energy coming from a man or a women
thats wing chun
so if you train with women ,ask yourself if its possible for them to defeat you ?
and you get the answer on the quality on wing chun your are practising
thats not women who have to train like man but men to have access to a more natural strength of women
that the origine of the style

5

does what you learned come from yuen kay san’s brother who moved to vietnam?

6

no

regards

7

My first wing chun (Ving Tsun) instructor was Moy Yat, and I studied with him form 1975-1983…before becoming a student of William Cheung in TWC - who, btw, in Moy Yat’s opinion (I once asked him) was the best fighter in the Yip Man clan.

But he also said a few things once about Ng Chan:

Firstly, that he was very much a loner and something of a mysterious character; and secondly, that, in Moy Yat’s words: “His (Ng Chan’s) kung fu was the most complete” - meaning that he learned the most about wing chun from Yip Man than anyone else.

Don’t really know what that means, but Moy Yat did say it once. And yes, Moy Yat did say that Ng Chan once lived with Yip man.

8

My first wing chun (Ving Tsun) instructor was Moy Yat, and I studied with him form 1975-1983…before becoming a student of William Cheung in TWC - who, btw, in Moy Yat’s opinion (I once asked him) was the best fighter in the Yip Man clan.

But he also said a few things once about Ng Chan:

Firstly, that he was very much a loner and something of a mysterious character; and secondly, that, in Moy Yat’s words: “His (Ng Chan’s) kung fu was the most complete” - meaning that he learned the most about wing chun from Yip Man than anyone else.

Don’t really know what that means, but Moy Yat did say it once. And yes, Moy Yat did say that Ng Chan once lived with Yip man.

9

ng chan

hello,

i can tell you what i know about ng chan
i met him first in hong kong when his close student ki ping pun introduced him to me.
he trained me and i met some other students of him and from yip man
for the little story ,some of them trained as well with bruce lee by the time he was student of yip man
they wasnt the ones you know by the media but most of them was either working for the police or even for the opposite …
there was as well po kin wah who had the same sifu of leon tin and who was learning from ng chan
a lot of sifu was looking to receive technics from him ,but because of his character ,very special ,he was very distant about that
you have to know that yip man wasnt showing his technics really in public.he was visiting each of his closest students and was teaching them differents things from one to another ;ometting some very special details ,very important to be really accomplished in wing chun
he was even mixing the wing chun that he received from the time he was in china to the one he received from the son of leun chan in hong kong (what is the authentic wing chun)
by the way ,without looking for any polemic) ,they told me that willian cheung left hong kong to australi queit young and that the reason his basics movements are different of the one of yip man and ng chan
ng chan was working for the bus company in hong kong when he started with yip man
dont forget that wing chun is a style ,which one should be behind the door ,and it was absolutly out of question for yip man and ng chan to teach the very essence of the system to too much people …

10

ng chan

hello,

i can tell you what i know about ng chan
i met him first in hong kong when his close student ki ping pun introduced him to me.
he trained me and i met some other students of him and from yip man
for the little story ,some of them trained as well with bruce lee by the time he was student of yip man
they wasnt the ones you know by the media but most of them was either working for the police or even for the opposite …
there was as well po kin wah who had the same sifu of leon tin and who was learning from ng chan
a lot of sifu was looking to receive technics from him ,but because of his character ,very special ,he was very distant about that
you have to know that yip man wasnt showing his technics really in public.he was visiting each of his closest students and was teaching them differents things from one to another ;ometting some very special details ,very important to be really accomplished in wing chun
he was even mixing the wing chun that he received from the time he was in china to the one he received from the son of leun chan in hong kong (what is the authentic wing chun)
by the way ,without looking for any polemic) ,they told me that willian cheung left hong kong to australi queit young and that the reason his basics movements are different of the one of yip man and ng chan
ng chan was working for the bus company in hong kong when he started with yip man
dont forget that wing chun is a style ,which one should be behind the door ,and it was absolutly out of question for yip man and ng chan to teach the very essence of the system to too much people …

11

Some questions about this, Moshe:

“you have to know that yip man wasnt showing his technics really in public.he was visiting each of his closest students and was teaching them differents things from one to another ;ometting some very special details ,very important to be really accomplished in wing chun…”

***I’VE HEARD THIS BEFORE…
…

“he was even mixing the wing chun that he received from the time he was in china to the one he received from the son of leun chan in hong kong (what is the authentic wing chun)
by the way ,without looking for any polemic) ,”

***I’VE ALSO HEARD THIS SAME THING FROM WILLIAM CHEUNG - that what Yip Man learned in Hong Kong from Leung Bik (the son of Leung Chan) was indeed the “real” wing chun.
…

“they told me that willian cheung left hong kong to australi queit young and that the reason his basics movements are different of the one of yip man and ng chan”

***BUT THIS PART OF YOUR STATEMENT IS UNCLEAR? What is the reason for the differences between William Cheung’s movements and those of Yip man and Ng Chan?

12

Interesting post Moshe.

Even more interesting to see how this thread will turn out.

13

***BUT THIS PART OF YOUR STATEMENT IS UNCLEAR? What is the reason for the differences between William Cheung’s movements and those of Yip man and Ng Chan?[/QUOTE]

if you are not teached the best way ,or for the time you need to accomplished youself;
so ,if you were too young and not enough mature to undestand the system
or if you are missing some technics ,you will try to substitute one way or another.
Your physic as well will influence your technics ;
if you tall ,short ,or slim or fat ,with muscles …
See what happened with people who have implemented wing chun with ,grabbling ,fighting on the ground ,chi kong,shina …
they go far from the authentic W C
BUT at the same time if when ,fighting against another style and as a result you see that you are not doing more than kick boxing ,you can tell yourself that you have not been teached wing chun
and please this is not a way to offend people who train serously and honnestly ,but just to try to give you an true picture of the reality of a style that not everybody can have access to authentic one
but this can help you to question yourselves ,to ask you question about you training and the way to improve it
let me add something ,i have been during a while the only student of ki ping pun ,i neither paid anything ,because himself when he was leaving at ng chan house didnt pay anything.the only price that i have to provide was only to show motivation and to train serously but i receive an very classic teaching ,i neither practise repeating the same sequence of movement 20 times that an different sequence.
i had to get familiar with a concept attached to each movement and that to be free of the movement
and this is already the base of wing chun because if you train several time the same sequence ,its already not anymore wing chun
wing chun try to teach to ready for any kind of situation that you will try to drive yourself but if you plane something too precise during the training you become dead and your technic is mechanic not alife like it should be
there is neither the two same situations in fighting
i understand that people who live from the teaching has to be abble to provide something to motivate their student but training in a mechanical way kill the system and the ability to improve above the movements

14

ng chan 2

***BUT THIS PART OF YOUR STATEMENT IS UNCLEAR? What is the reason for the differences between William Cheung’s movements and those of Yip man and Ng Chan?[/QUOTE]

if you are not teached the best way ,or for the time you need to accomplished youself;
so ,if you were too young and not enough mature to undestand the system
or if you are missing some technics ,you will try to substitute one way or another.
Your physic as well will influence your technics ;
if you tall ,short ,or slim or fat ,with muscles …
See what happened with people who have implemented wing chun with ,grabbling ,fighting on the ground ,chi kong,shina …
they go far from the authentic W C
BUT at the same time if when ,fighting against another style and as a result you see that you are not doing more than kick boxing ,you can tell yourself that you have not been teached wing chun
and please this is not a way to offend people who train serously and honnestly ,but just to try to give you an true picture of the reality of a style that not everybody can have access to authentic one
but this can help you to question yourselves ,to ask you question about you training and the way to improve it
let me add something ,i have been during a while the only student of ki ping pun ,i neither paid anything ,because himself when he was leaving at ng chan house didnt pay anything.the only price that i have to provide was only to show motivation and to train serously but i receive an very classic teaching ,i neither practise repeating the same sequence of movement 20 times that an different sequence.
i had to get familiar with a concept attached to each movement and that to be free of the movement
and this is already the base of wing chun because if you train several time the same sequence ,its already not anymore wing chun
wing chun try to teach to ready for any kind of situation that you will try to drive yourself but if you plane something too precise during the training you become dead and your technic is mechanic not alife like it should be
there is neither the two same situations in fighting
i understand that people who live from the teaching has to be abble to provide something to motivate their student but training in a mechanical way kill the system and the ability to improve above the movements

15

Moshe,

There is no need to start a new thread with each of your posts, you can keep answering questions and making comments on just one thread about Ng Chan - like this thread. :smiley:

Okay…

But what I’m really asking is for some details about what you see that’s different in William Cheung’s TWC (assuming you have seen TWC)…

what’s different about TWC’s “basic movements” (as you put it earlier)…than what you’ve seen in Ng Chan’s wing chun - and in particular, the wing chun that he (Ng Chan) got from Yip Man that came from his training in Hong Kong with Leung Bik (Leung Chan’s son).

The version of wing chun that you referred to earlier as the “authentic” wing chun.

What are the differences between this and William Cheung’s TWC?

Please be specific.

16

[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;1003450]
Please be specific.[/QUOTE]

Don’t hold your breath Victor.. :rolleyes::p:D

17

wow thats a new one. He was the only person to learn proper VT. So leung shueng, lok yiu, wong sun leung, tsui sun tin, yip bo ching (who I have heard was his best guy but doesn’t teach) all were not taught properly. So he let people teach a ****ty version of VT using his good name.
I think a few people have already claimed the “I was the one who learnt real ving tsun and no one else did” I think details would be helpfull to see if this just another, master of almightyness complex.

18

Benny Yip Bo Ching has been dead for a long time. Died before Yip Man. He did and didn’t teach depending on your pov. He had a few friends he trained as workout partners and to help improve his wing chun but no he never had a school or officially had students.

19

answer to question

hello,

i have to tell you that first im in this forum because i try to be in contact with a member who said that his father was a student of ng chan.so ive been catched by the interest to inform who practise wing chun about some that i know

anyway the more important is that people enjoy what they are doing and after to be abble to appreciate themselves ,honestly if what they are practising is answering to their expectations

to do this ,you have two ways ,
to test yourself with others and to check if technicly speaking (certainly not with physic strength) you drive the situation
or to meet more sifus and to see if they have something special

you asked me about william cheung
the difference between his wing chun and the one of ng chan is big ,very far

the position of the basics movements ,we can say can look close but in fact in the insight of wing chun are quite far
the stance is different
and the know how totally different
i have no time to start a description of all the movements

but i will try to explain in general and if you have a good mastering (sensation) of your body and some experience you will understand the point

i recall you first that the strength and energy that you have to provide in wing chun has to be the one that we are expecting from a women (who doesnt try to look like a man)

plus in wing chun when the hand launch an attack ,it has to come back only one the opponent is down and this in one movement
but one movement in wing chun is not like boxing where your punch and the hand step back each time for the following to attack

in wing chun the hand doents step back but when your arm meet an obstacle ,than you circulate by the shortest way (and this, as often you need) to strike the point you decide to strike
this is called one movement because during this your sensation and strengh move on differents locations of your forearm and hand and this never stop ,if its sopped your become dead in the way of wing chun because at this moment you are not anymore driving the situation (an empty moment)
if between each movement you stop your flow even a micro sec in you arm (like for exemple physical style of fighting when there is a break or a contraction between 2 movements ) you are not anymore practising what is making the specificty of wing chun
so knowing that a women created this style and is abble to provide a very particular strength ,and is abble to use the opponent force as well ;she organised differents movements which ones help to create a leverage in order to deflect attacks ,to control all kind of energy in the opponent arm and to allow you to circulate without any break or stop in the flow of your movements
this said should help anyone to keep in mind the purpose of wing chun

simple exemple ;you do bon sao followed by tan sao like you learned ,you must feel that the transition between both kill your flow of continuous sensation and stength to control continusly an other arm
that is not a good leverage

i hope i have answered to your expectation ,and sorry for my english (being french)
regards

20

sent tou you answer

not sure if i sent to right thread