ATTN: This is NOT a trolling/flaming post.
I just read this earlier today and never heard the story.
Something along the lines of Cheung living with Yip Man for four years and learning a more practical form of the system that he wasn’t supposed to teach anyone until after his death.
Is there truth to this? I just saw some video clips and their forms look much different … much more aggressive.
Everyone learns a different Wing Chun
Take Yip Chun, for example, he does man sao with his thumbs up like the Fonz! Or is that just for the cameras?
That’s William Cheung’s story, and it is true that his stuff has differences from other YM direct students (as do many of the rest from each other).
The story unfortunately has no supporting evidence other than William Cheung’s own claims, and is thus open to question.
There is more to it, viz. that Chan Wa Soon was taught an inferior “modified” version of WC by Leung Jan, who wanted to keep the Real Thing for his sons.
Yip Man learned from Chan Was Soon and became a major bada$$ of a WC fighter. But he ran into an old guy who bested him easily. This turned out to be Leung Bik, Leung Jan’s elder son, who thn taught Yip Man the Real Thing.
Yip Man allegedly only taught the midified system to the general populace, and reserved the Real Thing for William Cheung alone, swearing him to secrecy. After Yip Man died, Willaim Cheung then felt free to teach the Real Thing.
I’m from william Cheung’s lineage myself, but I’ve never been able to accept this version of events. Too fantastic, I’ve seen bad KF movies with better plots.
There is talk that this story was made up to account for some secret training William Cheung undertook on mainland China with an unknown master when he had to leave HK due to involvement in illegal actvities, but there is no hard evidence for this either.
This story is arguably the root of the biggest controversy in modern WC, and has already led to two highly publicised “fights” or ambushes among senior practitioners, depending on who tells the story. You would do well to tread carefully.
Aaayyyyyyyyy!LOL! I did hear that he loves reruns of Happy Days, and can even turn on a jukebox with a pak sau!
Anerlich
–The story unfortunately has no supporting evidence other than William Cheung’s own claims
Hey brother,
This should feel like a rerun by now. William cheung’s story gets on your nerves.
–I’m from william Cheung’s lineage myself, but I’ve never been able to accept this version of event.
LOL!!!I’ve never been able to accept Sum Nung/YKS claims either. So, what else is new? Fast-forward to something proactive.
What was the “other” incident? I heard about the one with Emin Boztepe …
Again, I’m not trolling, I’m just curious about some of this stuff since it’s the first time I’m hearing it.
ROFLMAO
Didnt Phil get a burr up his butt when i mentioned this?)
Gnugear search past topics.This one comes up every 3 months or so.At least 2 incidents.Other one referred to happened in New York.Most interesting in Hong Kong with a student of Lok Yiu behind closed doors in the 80’s.
RH,
rerun is right - even more than Happy Days!
gg,
There was a fight in NYC between TWC’s Keith Mazza and WT’s Andrew Draheim in I think 1996, after the latter started a huge flame war on rec-m.a. As with the previous incident, all involved deserve condemnation for their part.
Anerlick
–rerun is right - even more than Happy Days!
If that’s your way of getting HIGH, then you’re such a ( ? )- head?
RH,
The other guys mentioned Happy Days, I was going with the flow.
If that’s your way of getting HIGH, then you’re such a ( ? )- head?
Meaning what exactly? I started a civil conversation with you, are you insulting me now? Who said anything about getting high?
Martial arts are no different than anything else in life. Think of your own family. Not every story told is an historically exact sequence of events. Some are allegory, with moral lessons and social messages. Some are fish stories or ghost stories. Some are based on emotion, on old joys or pains, and the events are just sketched in. And memory is not a digital recorder. Often a group of people involved in the same event will come away with very different versions or recollections of it.
There’s no problem with any of that, as long as we understand it. And there’s no reason for it to cause trouble within the family (though it often will). Just as kids will have rifts because an aunt is at odds with an uncle, students will cause chaos championing the stories of their disagreeing sifus.
Most kids grow up, however, and most students learn, and hopefully as part of that process they gain self-confidence and self-worth and no longer feel the need to go to pick and choose sides within the family, to go to war for stories.
Those of us who have been on the internet a while have seen the original warriors (those who championed their sifus stories, sometimes to rediculous extremes) mellow and grow, in some cases still holding faith but no longer forcing it on others, in some cases losing faith but holding value, and in some cases moving on to other faiths. And we’ve seen new people come along, fresh and green and itching to start the fights up again, in some cases attacking those who, just a few years ago, were them. And sometime soon, there’ll be newer, greener folk, attacking the older lot and the current lot too, going through their own growth process, some making it, some not. And the cycle will repeat, and repeat (until, hopefully, the adults start teaching and raising a generation of their own in numbers vast enough to all but overwhelm the problems of the past – maybe a dream, but a nice one).
Rgds,
RR
Uh Oh, I think I might be sliding into RR’s ‘green’ categorie! I have a selection of different lineages to learn here in minneapolis and IMHO, as far as stories go, Leung Sheungs seems the most solid. He was Yip Mans first student. THat means for Yip Man to generate an income by takeing students he would have to have train his first few students well so that when they fought in public they made a good showing and people would be interested in learning Wing Chun.
Now that is not to say that what Yip Man taught to his later students is different, or not as good. I would hazard a guess that possibly it may have been a cut down more efficient way of learning. Later Yip Man could take the time to show his other students all the intricacies.
But for my goal, fighting in tournemants, I think the way Leung
Sheung possibly learned is best for me. I am learning from Carl Dechiara, who learned through Kenneth Chung, who learned from LS. We have added some things to supplement our learning since Leung Sheungs time but have kept the original training regimen.
What it comes down to is it works for me. I wouldnt say William Cheungs is not as good, or any o fthe others, just different, if it gets the job done, well, we just get more options!
r5a,
Sometimes early students learn the best for the reasons you stated, sometimes a teacher wants to protect their rice bowl and doesn’t teach them as much so they don’t go open a school up down the road and split the business. Sometimes the first person gets it, sometimes the richest, sometimes the longest lasting, sometimes the one with the most similar background, sometimes the brightest, sometimes the one with the closest personality, sometimes the most fiesty, and on and on. And sometimes a few can figure it out on their own regardless, while others squander. There are no guarantees. The latter part of your post is what I go by - if it suits you and you enjoy it. Doesn’t matter how great it is if you hate it or can’t do it and won’t continue.
Rgds,
RR
Right on RR. I wanted to make sure people knew that it was still my opinion, and my opinion has a habit of changing if given reasonable cause! 
For me the last bit is definitely the most important. The first school I went to just wasnt for me. Cant say that the stuff was bad, just didnt suit me. the stuff I learn now suits me well, and so I will stick with it.
I always say in wing chun go out and try the different flavors then find out for yourself what one you like best!
By the way RR, I dont know if I asked before but do you mind if I carry your quote around on my signature for a while? I thought it was very eloquent way of saying a good thing!
Anerlic
–Meaning what exactly?
2+2=?
–I started a civil conversation with you,
Same here!!!
–are you insulting me now?
Hey brother,
Don’t lose your cool. You should rethink your approach results in finding a better way!!! And I would like to ask the same question to you if you don’t mind - Are you insulting William Cheung now?
If not, let bygones be bygones.
Red5angel
–I wouldnt say William Cheung is not as good,
IMHO, William Cheung is 500 miles ahead of Leung Sheung and Kenneth Chung.
RH - I would say great, I hope you are getting out of his program what you want to!
FROM THE DEPTHS OF DISPAIR
HEY ROLLING HANDS,
QUICK QUESTION…YOU MENTIONED YOU DONT ACCEPT ALL OF SUM NUM/YKS STORY…WHAT PARTS?? IM IN THE YIP MAN LINEAGE BUT LIKE DISCUSING HISTORY AND ALL THE POSSIBILITIES…NO FLAMES JUST DISCUSION…B
RR
–those who championed their sifus stories, sometimes to rediculous extremes
Well said!!! In China many people have never been able to accept Sum Nung/YKS claims. However someone wrote a book to champion his sifu’s stories!!!