Dummy in Yip Man Tong
Hey Phil
Here is a picture of Yip Man’s own dummy (or they say it was his) in Yip Man Tong of FatShan.
Phil.
I can understand what you mean but,like 98.37562% of Wing Chun people,I have a dummy…(Two actually;one at home and one at my kwoon) with slightly uneven arms.I don’t see that as a so much serious problem to have to adjust for maybe 3/4 of an inch on one side.
I’m still looking for more sources about the dummy.
http://www.springtimesong.com/wcforms4woodendummy.htm
“The wooden dummy is a training device that acts as a substitute for a live training partner. The movements on the dummy have been organized by Yip man into two versions. The earliest had 108 movements and the later version has 116 movements. The original dummy was just planted into the ground. The later indoor dummy was the suspended kind shown in the photo. There is also a two people version of the dummy which is known as “the live dummy.” Some people also use this term to distinguish the suspended dummy from the dummy that was like a stake planted into the ground. Yip Man taught the two people version when there wasn’t a wooden dummy yet. The Cheung brothers built the first wooden dummy for Yip man. For more information on dummy construction and dummy use click here: more about the wooden dummy”.
yylee
I’ve seen Yip Man demonstrate on dummies with uneven arms before. I just go by the plans he made originally. What more can I say?
Old Jong
I knew this would cause a controversy. But when Keng Meng posted like he knew the real deal I had to clear things up.
I have an original Koo Sang dummy. You can insert the arms so that they are level or not. It all depends on how you insert them into the trunk. One of my Sifus, Duncan Leung, took private lessons with Yip Man. His dummies have even arms. People can put them in any way they choose. I choose level. I want my bong, tan pak, etc. on the on the left to be the same as the right. We are learning how to cover upper, middle, and lower gates right?
I train, I fight, I win. That’s the bottom line. I do what works for me and my students.
Peace
Well, it looks like Yip Man’s personal dummy in Fatshan had even arms eh?
http://www.hchwingchun.com.au/p07-imt.jpg
Originally posted by Phil Redmond
Well, it looks like Yip Man’s personal dummy in Fatshan had even arms eh?
http://www.hchwingchun.com.au/p07-imt.jpg
It looks uneven to me? The right-arm socket on the trunk seems to be a small step higher then the left-arm. 
Actually I don’t really care if it is not level or not. We adapt to different people of different sizes all the time. Bong/Tan/Folk angles are not always rigidly fixed (well, at lease I am not taught to fix them anyways).
It looks more even than this.
Bong/Tan/Folk angles are not always rigidly fixed (well, at lease I am not taught to fix them anyways).
I understand your point. I look at it like this. To us a Tan covers the upper gate. A gan covers the middle gate. Therefore I “spread” out and upwards and I “plough” down and out. I learned the way you probably do now. I do things differently now.
If your way works for you it’s all good. After looking closer I still say those arms look more like this.
Originally posted by Phil Redmond
It looks more even than this.
well, may be…
http://www.wengchun.net/Galerie/Master/SifuHoffmann_ChengKwong_WaiYan1_klein.jpg
http://www.wengchun.net/Galerie/Freunde/PangNam_klein.jpg
let’s leave it at that, I accept and respect our differences 
That’s not Wing Chun. That’s Weng Chun. They are written differently in Chinese and they are different in concept, (though some Wing Chun has dummies like that). I agree. We’ll just leave it like that.
Hello gentelmen
If you will let me perhaps I can help clear things up a little ,
First off the dummy arms thing. I say “To each his own”, but what Mr Redmond is talking about realy isnt the arms (the holes drilled in the body, but how the arms are made then self.) in the koo sang the mook jong, the arms themselfs are made offset so one can be placed up and the other placed down, bringing then closer to the center.
There is an interveiw with Yip Man at http://wingtsunwelt.vipex.net/engli…_interview.html
he trys to explain the differance between wing chung and weng chun.
Injoy the debate. Ill step out now. have a good day.
sincererly. C.A.G.
Originally posted by Phil Redmond
[B]>>For someone who is considered an icon of a martial art dating 300 years, Yip Man made a lot of mistakes… Or that’s what you’d have us believe…<<
You obviously know little about Yip Man. He was known for telling people, “Yeah, that’s right” regardless of what they were doing. [/B]
As I too have heard this about Ip Man, it is known that a lot of people say this or that about his WC, the truth of the matter is that pror to the HK period, “Futshan” ive never heard from my Sigung or other Sifu from that period about a dummy with level arms, or is that level holes? Perhaps you are referring to Sifu Ho Luens new design. At the end of the day its only “a training device” now being made in plastic as well…:D, 50 to 100 yrs from now someone will say this this too was blueprinted by the Immortal Ip Man.
Hmmmm, much to debate here, love these threads, now are we talking about the holes that are drilled in the trunk or are we talking about just the level of the arms? I would be totally interested to see blueprints on this dummy as I too have seen blueprints, would be nice to compare 
Phil R. is correct IMO.
Wing chun is a balanced art on both left and right sides. How you stick the arms into the dummy can make a difference,
a particular carpenter’s error can be multiplied if mechanically interpreted.
A little off centering of the holes can make a difference.
And one can “adjust” to a badly made dummy… if one has to.
But if you have a choice- why not do it “right”?:-
Hi Curtis,
I think this link will work for the Yip Man interview. Also, thanks for bringing that dummy with the breakable leg and spring arms by the kwoon. You should post pictures of the devices you make here. I know I’m sold. Maybe others will be too.
http://wingtsunwelt.vipex.net/english/weltverband/yipman/ym_interview.html
Thanks for the posting of the pic of the dummy at the Ip man Tong. Much appreciated.
yuanfen
if such a minor difference makes SUCH a difference in your wing chun being improper do not do the dummy period then. the dummy by nature forces you to “fix” your hands into certain positions that are artificial.
using a live partner will allow you to do your wing chun better then. skip chi sau too as that is again artificial training.
example on dummy of error —> second section after paks and wang juts is gum da. the arms in a dummy don’t move. the arms of a real person would. therefore we should make arms that move vertically?
left and right sides should be equal? so a tan has to be so and so degrees perfectly all the time and the tan of the opposite hand must match the first tan all the time too? I’m guessing all medium-level punches are always on the same level and angle too…that was one could use that ever-flexible dummy tan sau to block them all
I think having even arms is good. But to say that uneven ones make any difference is a load of manure. There are far too many other factors that make more of a difference in dummy training…
Read carefully- what I said- one can adjust.
Dont step on the unfortunate manure! Possibly could give fungus in the nails:-
BTW you apparently miss an important point about dummy work-
the main idea is not about "fixed"positions…per your choice of words.
EmptyCup
We understand that a form can’t equal actual combat. Real combat is dynamic. Forms help you learn structure, balance coordination, etc. When you perform SNT you do the hand positions the same way every time equally on both sides. The same goes for the other forms. The dummy cannot replace a real partner but it’s better than nothing. The arms on the dummy will not move as a real person. You have to use some imagery. You said that there is a error in the dummy form. Can you tell us how to correct it?