[QUOTE=KPM;1267960]I think it does look a bit like Pin Sun WCK and Yuen Kay Shan WCK.[/QUOTE]
I agree with Keith on this one.
[QUOTE=Minghequan;1267882]Snake-like? … sorry don’t see it myself.[/QUOTE]
I didn’t either. Although, I don’t have direct experience in crane or snake systems, I have spent time thru the years reading, watching videos and listening to what their practitioners have to see. Which is why I’m glad you are here to give you view on some of these topics!
[QUOTE=Minghequan;1267882]Connection to Wing Chun? Maybe in a few cursory movements and appearance.[/QUOTE]
Glad I’m not the only one that sees this. But then, I don’t have a dog in the fight. I just look at everything presented with an open mind, relate it back to my own experience and then cross-reference it to videos presented and what others like you have to share.
[QUOTE=Minghequan;1267882]Agreed, sadly many will “tack on” a connection to suit their own purposes here … at least that’s what I am guessing from this post. Maybe an attempt to have a sly dig and also to back-up some of that which Hendrik has written … who knows the motivations and means of others.
Pretty much betting my post will also be cherry-picked to pieces too!!!
Wing Chun is Wing Chun, White Crane is White Crane. If only people would leave it at that then these arts would grow far more than they appear to have on this forum. Stop looking for a “magic bullet” or "Holy Grail’ … as Master Huang Xingxian use to say “Learn less, practice more”.[/QUOTE]
While it’s not really fair to make this assumption about Keith’s initial intentions, this was my impression as well given the nature of a multitude of threads on this forum lately. And his ‘behavior’ in his following replies by not reading what people write, cherry picking replies, snarky comments, etc didn’t help change my initial thinking.
I try to be open to others views & experiences, even if I don’t necessarily agree with them. IMO, some here could learn to try to be more that way themselves.
Keith, I sometimes think you either only ‘see’ what you want to or you just like to argue,
And I could say the EXACT same thing about you! As far as “snarky comments”, lets examine your very first post on this particular thread, shall we?
I’ve noticed that people ‘looking’ for similarities between different arts will tend to see all sorts of things.
That seems kind of “snarky” to me, given that all I had done was post a video and note that I saw some things that looked similar to Wing Chun in my opinion.
I had even qualified my statements with:
But this is all pure conjecture and not meant to incite another round of comments from “you know who.” I just thought others might find this video interesting.
So to use your own snarky words…get over it. If you don’t find the video interesting, fine, move on.
- sure I made a guess to your intentions based on your cherry picking and snarky comments,
So you have joined the ranks of Wing Chun mind-readers? The comments I made about “cherry picking” to Ron apply equally to you. I responded to what I felt needed responding to, just like any normal conversation. I’m not required to respond to everything you post.
Speaking of such, I have no idea who this “you guys” are - I speak for myself and base my opinions on my own experiences
Ok. I apologize for that one. I was grouping you with the “naysayers” just like Ron has been grouping me with the “Hendrik supporters.” That’s not fair to either one of us.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1267968]1848 red boat Wck has traceable Fujian white crane , Emei 12 z , and anti Qing signatures.[/QUOTE]
Like has been said here before, the above statement is only true for your incomplete mish mash version of wing chun. Even the members of your own lineage don’t recognize you as anything more than a mouse nibbling on cheese.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1267968]Why don’t you do the same?
Didn’t all claim has to be back up by details and evidence?[/QUOTE]
That is a weak attempt to change the subject and make it about something it isn’t. Has nothing to do with me - I have never made ANY claims here.
As for evidence or me to backing something up to you, I have been more than willing to do so. I offered to meet with you on several occasions to give you the same fair chance. Instead, you chose to cry like a baby threatening to whine to FBI, law enforcement, etc. Unless you are really interested, I have nothing more to say to cry babies that run and tell the principle every time they stub their toe on the playground.
[QUOTE=JPinAZ;1267977]Like has been said here before, the above statement is only true for your incomplete mish mash version of wing chun.
.[/QUOTE]
I present the verifiable multiple historic source signatures and the signature of the Emei 12 zhuang gate keeper on paper.
That is what count.
Until you can come up with the same amount and level of solid evidence. What you have is just a story.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1267978]I present the verifiable multiple historic source signatures and the signature of the Emei 12 zhuang gate keeper on paper.
That is what count.[/QUOTE]
LOL, you have a piece of paper? Wow…
Even people from your own lineage calls you names, isn’t that enough proof you don’t know what you’re talking about ‘mouse’ boy? I have nothing more to say to you and you are a waste of time. Go cry to FBI and tell them I am not interested in your BS baby nonsense.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1267978]I present the verifiable multiple historic source signatures and the signature of the Emei 12 zhuang gate keeper on paper.
That is what count.
Until you can come up with the same amount and level of solid evidence. What you have is just a story.[/QUOTE]
Bwahahahahaha… a piece of paper!
Yeh, and i have the deeds for the Statue of Liberty… Bwahahahah
Keith,
Why is it you reference me when responding to others? Am I that important? Stop using me in your attempts to justify your position.
[QUOTE=Minghequan;1267999]Keith,
Why is it you reference me when responding to others? Am I that important? Stop using me in your attempts to justify your position.[/QUOTE]
Wow! You think pretty highly of yourself don’t you Ron? :rolleyes: I referenced you because YOU made the same comment about “cherry picking” that JP made. So I gave him the same response I gave YOU. Clear enough?
:rolleyes: Man talk about “touchy!” :rolleyes:
Get out of the wrong side of bed this morning Keith:confused:
It’s no big deal and certainly not to the level you are making it so don’t sweat the small stuff! Just funnin’ with Ya is all!
Interesting though to see your reaction (or "over-reaction 
)
Think highly of myself? No not really but I do believe in what I do and what I consider to be right just like any other person on this rotating blue ball.
Chill brother!
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1267978]I present the verifiable multiple historic source signatures and the signature of the Emei 12 zhuang gate keeper on paper.
That is what count.
Until you can come up with the same amount and level of solid evidence. What you have is just a story.[/QUOTE]
Give me the address of that museum we talked about , verify your source
Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
Connection to Wing Chun? Maybe in a few cursory movements and appearance. Would be a great service to myself and others if Sifu Ron could ask Sifu Lee Kong about the last set in the video. He may just have the missing link information about this set that establishes the particular origin of the SLT set. I would think this set is of White Crane origin, perhaps a very old set and not vice-versa where a Crane lineage took on the SLT set as part of their repertoire from WingChun as have some other Southern lineages. The material looks too White Crane-like to have modified a version of WingChun SLT. Either way, maybe Sifu Lee Kong may know of this.
[QUOTE=Minghequan;1268006]:rolleyes: Man talk about “touchy!” :rolleyes:
Get out of the wrong side of bed this morning Keith:confused:
It’s no big deal and certainly not to the level you are making it so don’t sweat the small stuff! Just funnin’ with Ya is all! Interesting though to see your reaction (or "over-reaction )
Think highly of myself? No not really but I do believe in what I do and what I consider to be right just like any other person on this rotating blue ball.
Chill brother![/QUOTE]
Chill brother? You make snarky comments and directives like “stop using me in your attempts to justify your position.” And when its pointed out to you how far off you are you justify it by saying “Just funnin’ with Ya is all”??? If your tone and intention is not clear, and your words are rather rude, you are going to get a similar response. You you were “just funnin” when you told me to stop using you to “justify my position”?? :rolleyes: Your post certainly didn’t seem to me like you were “just funnin.”
Man! It’s just an internet forum. For F#@k Sake stop being so sensitive!
[QUOTE=Minghequan;1268077]Man! It’s just an internet forum. For F#@k Sake stop being so sensitive![/QUOTE]
Ah shucks! I was just funnin’ with ya Ron! :rolleyes:
Yeah me too baby. Good to see you can take a joke …look in the mirror … just funnin’ with ya:D
RE: White Crane and Lee Kong as presented in the Vid posted …
The last set shown has many similarities to Siu Nim Tao of the Snake Crane lineage.
Master Lee Kong confirms that this is very Old White Crane, not the same as other 5 crane styles. This set we cannot find in today’s 5 White Crane lineages.
Out of respect for Master Lee Kong, I will not name this set nor say any more about it. It is a family form.
I can say that it was said that:
“You like to learn and to take as much as possible. What Shing did in the video, it is very similar to your fa jin video as you do your form”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBKHYb90lBw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bq_brh6zas
I hope this helps in some small way.
Ron wrote initially:
[B]Snake-like? … sorry don’t see it myself.
Connection to Wing Chun? Maybe in a few cursory movements and appearance. [/B]
Ron says now:
The last set shown has many similarities to Siu Nim Tao of the Snake Crane lineage.
So I’m confused. Have you changed your mind and are now agreeing with me when I wrote in my first post:
Also note the form demonstrated near the end of the clip. Lots of very “snake-like” motions. You will see many Biu Gee’s as well as the “waving hands” from the YMWCK Biu Gee form or the YKSWCK SNT form that is often referred to as “snake hands”. I personally didn’t realize that White Crane had these “snakey” motions.
[QUOTE=KPM;1268136]You will see many Biu Gee’s as well as the “waving hands” from the YMWCK Biu Gee form or the YKSWCK SNT form that is often referred to as “snake hands”.[/QUOTE]
“Waving hands” is a good name for it. WSL used to say that’s them waving goodbye just before they die. 
It’s not done like that in our BJ form from YM.
Keith … really?
Did you even read my post. I said (slowly so you will understand!):
The last set shown has many similarities to Siu Nim Tao of the Snake Crane lineage.
Have you seen the Snake Crane Wing Chun Siu Nim Tao as performed by Master yung’s people?
Yes it has similarities more so for me in the White Crane and less for the Snake (Doh! I’m a White Crane stylist, not a “Snake” stylist). Can I make that any clearer for you???
I don’t see any connection to what Hendrik is touting from his end or his “snake” … got it?
Interesting that you cherry piuck my statements to death ad-nausea yet Hendrik who is the master of un-clear and rather undefined statements gets no treatment from you?
Hendrik fails to answer the most direct and simple question yet you remain silent?
Hendrik says its his right to change his mind and yet you say nothing!
I attempt to clarify my view and off you go!
Hmmm maybe, just maybe you are showing signs of an agenda?
That’s okay though as I can see where your headed and why. It doesn’t matter as I’ll keep posting my views and if this is all you have to contribute to the discussions well I think I’ll just ignore you … breaking up is so hard to do:D