Hi,
I have viewed this video of the master Lee Kong Fujian White Crane branch:
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=MC579DhVSTc&feature=related
A real nice form. Very interesting.
Do you know something about this branch of White Crane of Hong Kong and his similarity with Wing Chun?
Thanks
Yik Kam lineage’s SLT kuen kuit is using the same type of Classical White Crane Kuen Kuit term with them.
That is pointing toward both Master Lee’s lineage and Yik Kam’s SLT are an evolution of the older classical White Crane, very likely around mid to end 1700.
Southern Mantis, Bak Mei, White Crane, and several other kung fu styles are all very similar to wing chun. Many include Chi sao and wooden dummy work in very similar ways as well.
Hell, even styles like Uechi-ryu and Isshin-ryu, have an incredible amount of similarities to these styles.
Wing Chun is not a unique snowflake 
it is an effective way to do things, and there are only so many ways to effectively move your body for fighting… thus the effective ways are always developed and found by several people across the world who may never have met eachother.
An oval and a circle may look similiar when in fact there are differences in detail.
When you understand the detail as well as the principle then progress is being made.
An oval and a circle may look similiar when in fact there are differences in detail.
When you understand the detail as well as the principle then progress is being made.
That may be true when a novice in the martial arts compares northern gung fu to southern gung fu.
But thats definitely not true when comparing wing chun to bak mei, spm, or white crane. The similarities extend far beyond the aesthetics.
Sifu Lee Kong’s lineage and myself have a contract, we have exchange some fundamental kuen kuit term and definition. If fact, that help me clarify the classical white crane terms which is within the Yik Kam’s SLT kuen kuit.
I still remember at the communication, I was told, " in general, white crane player today will not recognized the white crane term in your kuen kuit because those are old white crane term which is rarely used today."
We know, there was a white crane evolution around the end of 1700. and we know after these revolution, older white crane term were fading away.
The Yik Kam SLT kuen kuit consist of two types of classical term. namely the White crane and the Emei. These are solid evidence can be tracted further then most so called oral WCK history.
and Both these classical term within the YIk Kam SLT kuen kuit had been endosed by both clasical White Crane and Emei practitioners.
There is no fuzziness. these stuffs get into very detail and it support the training of SLT.
The sad part of the so called WCK history search is that most searcher or researcher doesnt have a good in depth Chinese Martial art history and technical back ground.
most based on thier speculation without content. most will get to the point of " my sijo said so " but never get far enough to prove what the sijo said is infact fit the chinese history, chinese martial art technology, chinese martial art history.
The research of Yik Kam SLT kuen kuit, bring us to Shang hai, to Emei, to Fujian and have found evidence which support the kuen kuit from these area which fit the chinese history, chinese martial art technology, and chinese martial art history in details. If that doesnt tell the story of what is likely about the creation of SLT, then what does? most His-stroy stop as " my sijo said and you have to respect my sijo because my sijo is the greatest, if you question my sijo then you are the enermy of my whole family." or " can you beat me? if not shut up."
or some will trying to link WCK to Shao Lin or Zen…etc. however, the fact is these people doesnt even have a clear experience on what is Zen? what is Shao lin’s core principle —Zen and martial is non dual —. what is non dual? what is zen? why is Martial and Zen can be non dual? ONe needs to know the Zen buddhism in depth to know these.
With these type of attitude, search will go no way because those are just demanding for others to believe in one’s story. and it got nothing to do with find out what is going on and find out how to operate the training of the SLT and got benifit by the SLT training.
with these type of attitude it just boil down to forum mouth-fu war instead of finding out what is really going on.
A matter of fact,
Over the years, there are people such as the Wingchunpedia which is lying about myself and not willing to make correction be if after many times I have inform then thier erro.
http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WCP.ChoFamilyLineage
Somehow the Wingchunpedia authority decide to degrade me to become a student of my siheng Yeong Cheong. what this authority doesnt know is that they dont know my art and Yeong Cheong’s art. they never met Yeong and myself, they never know my sifu.
Those who knows Yeong and me will laught, how can an Yik Kam internal art practitioner give birth from an external art sifu? Just look at Yeong’s or mine Youtube on our art presentation will tell the story.
What is this type of purposely mis information bring? Screw up in history. It has nothing to do with FActs but political agenda.
It is just purposely trying to down grade me for a certain people in SEA. what is that to do with facts? NONE but side taking and bias to serve one’s own private agenda. not to mention, qouting my research and intentionally down grade me. Is that the attitude of a wing chun kuen history researcher?
Just some thoughts
Originally posted by AdrianK
That may be true when a novice in the martial arts compares northern gung fu to southern gung fu.
But thats definitely not true when comparing wing chun to bak mei, spm, or white crane. The similarities extend far beyond the aesthetics.
Because the Southern Style Chinese Martial Arts can appear so strikingly similiar it is essential to be able to differentiate between each and all principles and each and all details to identify them otherwise there would be no need to be any more descript than to say southern style CMA.
Originally posted by hendrik
A matter of fact,
Over the years, there are people such as the Wingchunpedia which is lying about myself and not willing to make correction be if after many times I have inform then thier erro.
hendrik get your own his stories right before you concern yourself with everyone else and their knowledge of their own systems.
[QUOTE=canglong;910373]Because the Southern Style Chinese Martial Arts can appear so strikingly similiar it is essential to be able to differentiate between each and all principles and each and all details to identify them otherwise there would be no need to be any more descript than to say southern style CMA.[/QUOTE]
In my view, they appear “strikingly similar” because they are in fact strikingly similar – just different takes on the same basic approach to fighting, albeit with varying focuses. You could say different textbooks (ways of teaching) pertaining to the same subject. For the sake of illustration, we could take various chemistry textbooks and say they are “strikingly similar” but dissect each and point out differences, but that really misses the point. Further adding to the problem is the layers of theoretical nonsense piled onto each text (style) – often people confuse the nonsense with the substance, and start comparing and contrasting the nonsense which only feeds confusion.
[QUOTE=canglong;910380]hendrik get your own his stories right before you concern yourself with everyone else and their knowledge of their own systems.[/QUOTE]
Let’s focus on the topic of this thread ---- Relation wing Chun - Lee Kong White Crane Branch
If you have the “beef” evidence such as Yik Kam’s lineage have — the link to Emei and sifu Lee Kong White Crane and got endosement by emei and white crane. Shows them to us in the forum and educate us.
I am open to be educate.
if you have nothing then I suggest you practice what you preach.
Originally posted by t_niehoff
In my view… – often people confuse the nonsense with the substance, and start comparing and contrasting the nonsense which only feeds confusion.
Sure everyone is entitled to their views and yeah that would be why the statement clearly said focus on the principle and detail. Surely it is the view of many others that for good reason such as the principles and details within each that wing chun is identified as wing chun and bak mei is identified as bak mei and so on and so forth.
A matter of fact,
Over the years, there are people such as the Wingchunpedia which is lying about myself and not willing to make correction be if after many times I have inform then thier erro.
http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/...oFamilyLineage
Somehow the Wingchunpedia authority decide to degrade me to become a student of my siheng Yeong Cheong. what this authority doesnt know is that they dont know my art and Yeong Cheong’s art. they never met Yeong and myself, they never know my sifu.
Those who knows Yeong and me will laught, how can an Yik Kam internal art practitioner give birth from an external art sifu? Just look at Yeong’s or mine Youtube on our art presentation will tell the story.
What is this type of purposely mis information bring? Screw up in history. It has nothing to do with FActs but political agenda.
It is just purposely trying to down grade me for a certain people in SEA. what is that to do with facts? NONE but side taking and bias to serve one’s own private agenda. not to mention, qouting my research and intentionally down grade me. Is that the attitude of a wing chun kuen history researcher?
Just some thoughts
Without fail hendrik whatever the topic when you join in we know you will make sure the topic turns to you.
[QUOTE=canglong;910464]Sure everyone is entitled to their views and yeah that would be why the statement clearly said focus on the principle and detail. Surely it is the view of many others that for good reason such as the principles and details within each that wing chun is identified as wing chun and bak mei is identified as bak mei and so on and so forth.
[/QUOTE]
When people say “focus on the principle and detail” they are not talking about fighting (how could they?), they are talking about how they believe it works in THEORY. Yes, many people (argumentum ad populum) believe as you do.
There are many schools of traditional japanese jiujitsu that pertain to submission fighting. And I’m sure many people – the martial art nerds – could talk on endlessly about how they are different “in principle and detail”. Yet when you really look at submission fighting – which is what those arts are about and not the curriculums or how each is taught – you’re going to see pretty much the same things. Same if you take many different schools of close range, contact fighting.
[QUOTE=canglong;910464]
Without fail hendrik whatever the topic when you join in we know you will make sure the topic turns to you.[/QUOTE]
I have already shared my experience and mutual communication on White Crane and WCK with Sifu Lee Kong’s lineage above.
Do you have anything to share on Sifu Lee Kong’s White Crane? if yes, share.
if not what to complain?
Hell, even styles like Uechi-ryu and Isshin-ryu, have an incredible amount of similarities to these styles.
My first point is that I agree with AdrianK’s statement secondly to point out how to distinguish between two similar entities.
Originally posted by t_niehoff
There are many schools of traditional japanese jiujitsu that pertain to submission fighting. And I’m sure many people – the martial art nerds – could talk on endlessly about how they are different “in principle and detail”. Yet when you really look at submission fighting – which is what those arts are about and not the curriculums or how each is taught – you’re going to see pretty much the same things. Same if you take many different schools of close range, contact fighting.
Your statement appears to miss the point of the earlier discussion and your ability to go on endlessly about the things you choose to discuss is neither impressive or relevant.
hendrik the only person complaining is you.
Thankyou very much for you response about Lee Kong’s lineage of white crane.
Many of the hand methods of Lee Kong’s Weng Chun White Crane are very close to the Yik Kam Siu Lien Tao system. If you were to do Siu Lien Tao with advancing steps it would be very close to the set shown by Lee Sifu.
Robert,
yes, we know the similarity with the White Crane.
and on the other hand, how the strength was developed is another key. My view is it is the snake method from the Emei 12 Zhuang style that was used for SLT.
So, it is as simple as where is the shape source from and where is the method of developing the strenght source from.
Simple issues however some missed the source of strength development or lost the method of the strength development.
Robert
Could u give some link of video