[QUOTE=Happy Tiger;1167030]The term ‘modified’ as expressed in the bad old days seems to revolve around three central issues ; shifting, body turning and footwork. IMO these are all adaptations born of specific environmental concerns and super tight quarters found on the docks and boats during the ‘Opera’ period.[/QUOTE]
A good opinion but incorrect imhho.
Good Wing Chun includes everything you mention because it has ‘always been there’. If anything, whilst on the boats etc the system was restricted to suit such environments, it wasn’t redesigned from the base up to include anything ‘new’. And there are other stories about the developments on the boats, ranging from the more secretive assassin crews to more simpler (and honest!) cooks, actors and performers.
And if you are into the language of Wing Chun, it was during the operatic period our specific slang terms were introduced and the more poetic verses may have been modified or encoded. Again, just my own random research.
[QUOTE=Happy Tiger;1167030]What makes Ip Man VT so curious is a seeming, phasic integration of these with varying degrees of success. Like a puzzle meant to be worked out with all the clues right in plain sight.[/QUOTE]
Very very true. Ip Mans ‘puzzle’ is still to be understood and may always remain hidden imho because there seems to be far more interest in the mainland and older families nowadays. And Ip Mans influences may become distant memories all too soon and I do not really want this to happen.
Very very true. Ip Mans ‘puzzle’ is still to be understood and may always remain hidden imho because there seems to be far more interest in the mainland and older families nowadays. And Ip Mans influences may become distant memories all too soon and I do not really want this to happen.
I agree with you in regards to the interest in Mainland Styles cuurently, they are somewhat fashionable (if thats the right term) right now.
But its just a phase and i think the balance of acknowledgement will reassert itself.
Having said that, I dont buy the whole IM puzzle thing, he was a talented guy for sure but no Super man… All of his “secrets” are still there for us
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1167243]------------------------------------------------------------
???In my family- he remains the main figure.[/QUOTE]
As he does in mine too Joy, regardless of what people think about my Sigung he was very loyal to Ip Mans mission in Europe. And so too is my Sifu FWIW.
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1167241]A good opinion but incorrect imhho.
Good Wing Chun includes everything you mention because it has ‘always been there’. If anything, whilst on the boats etc the system was restricted to suit such environments, it wasn’t redesigned from the base up to include anything ‘new’. And there are other stories about the developments on the boats, ranging from the more secretive assassin crews to more simpler (and honest!) cooks, actors and performers.
And if you are into the language of Wing Chun, it was during the operatic period our specific slang terms were introduced and the more poetic verses may have been modified or encoded. Again, just my own random research.
Very very true. Ip Mans ‘puzzle’ is still to be understood and may always remain hidden imho because there seems to be far more interest in the mainland and older families nowadays. And Ip Mans influences may become distant memories all too soon and I do not really want this to happen.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your reply. I should have been clearer. The old ‘traditional’ VT has most of these things mentioned but in a quite different format. The exception being of ‘shifting’ which, as far as I can tell, is not incorporated at all in the old Jee Shin, Hung Fa Yi and Traditional VT. I’m working on a bit more involved response.
Respects
[QUOTE=GlennR;1167244]I agree with you in regards to the interest in Mainland Styles cuurently, they are somewhat fashionable (if thats the right term) right now.
But its just a phase and i think the balance of acknowledgement will reassert itself.
Having said that, I dont buy the whole IM puzzle thing, he was a talented guy for sure but no Super man… All of his “secrets” are still there for us[/QUOTE]
More puzzle for me,heheh! Chinese martial art is ripe with puzzles, cryptics and decipherable ciphers, it’s one of the coolest things about gung fu. There’s something there,man. Born of GM Ip Mans unique pedigree,no doubt. There are no secrets in a puzzle, that’s the thing…if there were, that would be seen as un fair. It’s right in front of us, we just have to monkey it out.
[QUOTE=Happy Tiger;1167271]More puzzle for me,heheh! Chinese martial art is ripe with puzzles, cryptics and decipherable ciphers, it’s one of the coolest things about gung fu. There’s something there,man. Born of GM Ip Mans unique pedigree,no doubt. There are no secrets in a puzzle, that’s the thing…if there were, that would be seen as un fair. It’s right in front of us, we just have to monkey it out.[/QUOTE]
VT doesn’t need secrets, its so abstract to begin with…
[QUOTE=Happy Tiger;1167253]Thanks for your reply. I should have been clearer. The old ‘traditional’ VT has most of these things mentioned but in a quite different format. The exception being of ‘shifting’ which, as far as I can tell, is not incorporated at all in the old Jee Shin, Hung Fa Yi and Traditional VT. I’m working on a bit more involved response.
Respects[/QUOTE]
So when you say ‘shifting’ I presume you aint talking about stealthy Shinobi methods!!??
You are right about the answers being ‘right in front of us’ too, and I like the way you use the word ‘puzzle’ instead of ‘secret’, but unfortunately I feel that if a Sifu has a reputation, has put more than 10 years into his career and still has a following that in effect is feeding him and his family, they may have no interest whatsoever in having the puzzle revealed!
I have recently had direct experience of this, but luckily the Sifu in question was very humble and open to learning as all he wanted was to improve himself and the quality of his students. We still learn from eachother now too.
Perhaps start a thread on this ‘shifting’ thing, but if it’s all about what point of the foot is used to turn and kidney meridians, toes or heels blah blah blah I think it’s been slogged to death here already
[QUOTE=GlennR;1167244]I agree with you in regards to the interest in Mainland Styles cuurently, they are somewhat fashionable (if thats the right term) right now.
But its just a phase and i think the balance of acknowledgement will reassert itself.
Having said that, I dont buy the whole IM puzzle thing, he was a talented guy for sure but no Super man… All of his “secrets” are still there for us[/QUOTE]
Fashionable right now??? WTF? For some of us this is our core style that we’ve done for years and years… Just because there’s finally a bit of interest and acknowledgement doesn’t mean its some new fashionable thing… Historically here any mainland or turning style discussion is relegated to the back corner while you guys argue about lineage and blow opium smoke up Ip Man’s @ss. In fact mainland WC is still barely known in the grand scheme of things. Many of us ‘mainland’ guys have been reading your threads about Ip Man (with interest) for years, and now some people talk about some of the mainland stuff and its just a passing popular trend that you Ip Man guys have to be condescending towards? You guys are f#cking nuts lol
[QUOTE=Mutant;1167417]Fashionable right now??? WTF? For some of us this is our core style that we’ve done for years and years… Just because there’s finally a bit of interest and acknowledgement doesn’t mean its some new fashionable thing… Historically here any mainland or turning style discussion is relegated to the back corner while you guys argue about lineage and blow opium smoke up Ip Man’s @ss. In fact mainland WC is still barely known in the grand scheme of things. Many of us ‘mainland’ guys have been reading your threads about Ip Man (with interest) for years, and now some people talk about some of the mainland stuff and its just a passing popular trend that you Ip Man guys have to be condescending towards? You guys are f#cking nuts lol :D[/QUOTE]
Fashionable in the sense that there is people looking back past Yip Man to see what other styles/lineages of WC are available. Not so long ago, if it was WC without Yip Man in it, then in a lot of peoples eyes it wasnt “proper” WC.
So i think you have over reacted a bit
Hi Glenn, no worries and not trying to be a spaz lol. I just got a chuckle out of the conversation and was a bit dismayed at first, but I do see the broader context and better understand what was meant now. Cheers.
[QUOTE=Mutant;1167428]Hi Glenn, no worries and not trying to be a spaz lol. I just got a chuckle out of the conversation and was a bit dismayed at first, but I do see the broader context and better understand what was meant now. Cheers.[/QUOTE]
No problem M, after all, us mainland guys have to stick together
