Some people claim that it is an improvement over the traditional style. But it seems like the traditional method has everything that the “modified” version has, plus a lot more. The blocks of the "modified " version also seem to be easy to penetrate. Any thoughts on this?
I love this place.
Well, I can’t comment on the “modified” or “traditional” Wing Chun… I’m not sure what version of Wing Chun I learn… but I do know enough to say that Wing Chun is a personal art. You get what you put in… For instance, I use what I have learned with my own flavor..
I was taught the ASP (Absolute Starting Point) of Wing Chun but my instructor says this is just the general guideline… my WC will be different than his (he outweighs me by 60 lbs) and will be different than anyone elses for that matter…
I guess both types of WC would be great for the street…depending on how you are able to use those techniques with your own body.
I’m sure Yip Man’s personal style was very different than Wong Shung Leung’s or William Cheung’s etc…
then again I could be wrong…nah 
SHUT THE FUCK UP CUNT
SHUT IT TART
curious:
In case you couldn’t tell, talking about the usefullness of “traditional” vs. “modified” Wing chun is kinda opening an icky can of worms for some…
Thanks!
Sandman[Wing Chun]
Sharky,
Maybe a little more work is in order before you try out for your school’s debate team, eh?
Peace.
Reverend Tim
On the other hand,I think Sharky’s comedy act is just about perfect.
As soon as we can ween him off the word, “tart,” I figure he’s ready to headline.
Peace.
Reverend Tim
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ReverendTim:
As soon as we can ween him off the word, “tart,” I figure he’s ready to headline.
[/quote]
Sorry Padre,
He is a brit. Words like tart , burke, nancy boy, twit, ninnie, pisser, and the like are ingrained. He must be about,I’d say, 7 or 8 years old.
LOL! Wow, he is so funny.
SHOCKING too!! I almost had to run away from my moniter… it must be great sitting in front of your computer (Probably doing things I wont mention.) making up those zingers that showcase your brilliant wit.
Tim, you ought to let him on the show! He could be the “Dumbed-down” version of Beavis and Butthead! Sharky, do you have a stupid giggle too?
Oh oh, I just thought of something… dont you have to be over 21 to get in the place? Oh well, I was trying to give you a shot of fame kid.
BTW, you obviously have no clue as to what Karma means do you? Dont worry, you will. Trust me on this one.
On the matter of the original post which we forgot about
From my experience with what i have seen with wing chun and practised, without meaning to put anyone down, just how i see it.
Any one i have seen from yip mans lineage is not that good compared to the other wing chun guys.
The two main splittings marketing wise i have seen under Yip mans lineage, is william cheung and Leung ting
Leung ting claims to be modified but has all the traditional sort of cat stance etc etc and william cheung who claims to be traditional has stances like side neutral and stuff like that, IMHO they got it confused. But form what i have seen william cheungs method is better I hate to say this but from the tapes and demos of leung ting they are really crappy, his footwork lacks the word foot work basically it was like blah shite. William cheung talks a lot of fart but his style is better synthesized for example he doesnt really say use a tan sau vs a swinging punch whereas leung tings style does, i think if you got swung at from a 400 pound fat guy and you tried the tan sao you would be smacked in the head. Also william cheung works all this blind side open side footwork etc.
However if you want real wing chun yip mans lineage is a no no , reason is that no one learned the whole thing, when i was reading how he taught his students there were some blokes who learnt say the pole the wooden dummy and the siu lum tao , others learnt chum kiu biu jee and and the pole so no one learned the whole thing, also what ive noticed is that william lacks true internal i have seen his inch punch and its good but its not internal the way chens fa jing is , its more external like tyson is.
The best wing chun moves i had seen was in a film during the training scenes, the film is called warriors two and if you like real wing chun get it it will change you whole view on wing chun , and how the blocks are used etc.
I think terms like “traditional” and “modified” are lost on Wing Chun since it appears that the tradition is to modify it.
This movie, Warriors Two, is the sequel to Prodigal Son, a classic Wing Chun flick. The sequel is about Leung Jan as the older respected Sifu and the Wing Chun stuff is very fun to watch. It’s interesting to compare the “type of movement” as presented here with the way “modern” WC people move.
HeHEHeeHeEHeEHeHEEehehehEHeHEEHeEHheEHeheEHe
etc
Wongsifu,
Out of curiousity have you ever actually trained or met anyone from either Leung Ting or William Cheungs lineage or are you just relying on second and thirdhand information?
You are correct in stating that these are the two main “commercial” offshoots from Yip Man. Still, there are many others, Wong Sheung Long, Augustine Fong (Through Ho Kam Ming), Duncan Leung, Hawkins Cheung etc. I would gather from your post that you do not thik any of these is worth looking into since Yip Mans style is a “no no”. Seems to me like many of them have done quite well with the “limited” version of Wing Chun they were taught. But then again, maybe all the encouters involving these stylists and their students were against equally unschooled attackers
Your assesment of William Cheung not using a Taun Sau against a roundhouse type punch is incorrect. I have had the privilege of studying both Leung Ting and William Cheungs systems. In both I was taught the use of Taun against a roundhouse. However, there is a difference in that Williams versions seems to stick closer to the idea of a Taun being used to “disperse” the attack while Leung Tings strives to be softer and flow around the attack accepting the force and taking a slightly different shape. Although to be fair, Wing Chun stresses attack and sometimes you would not use this technique as you would be reaching for the attack and instead you will simply attack. Following the theory that a circular attack takes longer to complete than a straight line attack, hence your strike reaches him prior to the completion of his round attack.
I feel that Williams style does have a little more variety in his footwork and many of his applications seem to be more subtle than some others. Still, there is a lot to be said for the one performing as to an arts effectiveness.
I would also be curious as to what other versions of Wing Chun you have been exposed to, since you seem to discount all of Yip Mans people. Unless you have had the opportunity to train in another version Yip Man Wing Chun is all you would most likely have the chance to study as it is the most popular. Yip Man was the first to truly open his doors to the public and teach Wing Chun to the masses. There is speculation that Yip Man himself did not learn the complete Wing Chun system as well, but he shared training with some very well respected Wing Chun people of other lineages most notably Yuen Kay.
As to the movies showing true Wing Chun; I guess it all depends on whether you think you can learn this style from videos. Movies are nice and very enjoyable, and I like watching them as much as the next guy. Still, I have been able to maintain the knowledge that what I see in a movie is not always real. Remember, they follow a script and the good guy usually wins no matter what style he does.
I would be interested in learning your response as well as if you study Wing Chun and if so from who. To say that one lineage has nothing to offer seems rather shortsighted to me. Unless you have direct knowledge of something you should refrain from making judegments. I know for a fact that you have never met me nor any of my classmates or you would have a slightly different take on Yip Man Wing Chun
Peace,
Dave
I beg to differ Wongsifu…
I am from Yip man’s lineage… but not from William Cheung or Leung Ting…there are other’s you know…and although I am not a high level practitioner, I do feel many from his (Yip Man) linneage are just as good as any other…
I know you are probably talking from personal experience…but to make a blanket statement from just a few encounters is just as wrong as whites saying all “chinks” are yellow screaming monkeys… well you get the idea
[This message has been edited by Buhma (edited 07-07-2000).]
Is anyone familiar with “Lau Kun Do”? There is a school in Long Beach, Calif. run by Richard Tsim (hope I spelled his name correctly)..I take it as being a modified Wing Chun style. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks 
There is nothing wrong with traditional wing chun. The only reason people " modify" it is because they can’t do it right the traditional way. Then they change things and start that whole Bruce Lee " classical mess" blah blah etc..
Buhma, how about Screaming White Devils?
Ok, I have not been introduced to Wing Chun formally. I have watched Wing Chun fighters and I have seen literature on the subject. I have to say that I have been extremely impressed with the art. I am also a fan of Bruce Lee, but I also feel that he was arrogant and although he had a brilliant mind, he was quite short sighted at times.
I have Bruce’s books and I can honestly say that the virtues expounded in his core books are present in most of the systems that he has bad-mouthed.
All I am saying is that the arguments that I have personally read in the mags and current literature seem petty and irrelevant. If I had to do it over and take another striking art, it would be Wing Tsun. Hell, I dont need to because there is a large Boston community here and we can train in the future. Rev. Tim is a little ahead of me though.
sihing 73 , I didnt want to come across as saying that everyone from yip mans lineage is cruddy its just that I havent been as impressed as with other styles,
Ex if I take hung gar and I look at wing lam I think Good. If I look at Frank Yee I think Wow, If I look at Chiu Chi ling I drool LOL
Anyhow My statement actually came across wrongly and It was meant more like too many bad eggs give off a bad smell and you dont know where it comes from any more. I must admit I have seen other wing chun guys through articles, the net etc which I thought they are good, I cant remember names,Augustine fong Duncan Leung does spring to mind. But I always feel that wing chun lacks something, Kind of like tai chi without the rooting, or hung gar without the forearm and finger training. Its not the guys its like wing chun is missing stuff i cant really put my finger on. When I watched warriors two a lot of this was cleared up , Like all the different angles you could rotate your palm for the attacks or how good the footwork can actually be. About attacking above and below simultaneously about using inch punch and setting up your moves. I especially liked his application of tan sau where he tottaly moves out of the way of the attack and uses the tan to control the arm as opposed to a block.
I will give you one of my biggest problems I faced with wing chun and why i say it lacks. I said earlier that William Cheungs lineage has got better footwork, the thing is though its only in 2 directions, back and forth. Look at another martial art the have up down left right back and forth.
When I see ppl spar from my old school sometimes all i see is 2 ppl going back and forth back and forth Never side to side. Whereas the whole concept of WC is avoid force and redirect, I never see WC players move out the way. I mean William Cheungs footwork is good in the blind side open side concept but how many times have you seen people step in while someone is attacking ? Most times people step back block then step in.
As for the wing chun I have pracitsed,etc. I did study mainly under a student of william cheung,4 years ish i think. I never came across the tan sau as a block against round house though .. thats why i said it but we didnt really follow the syllabus tottaly I mean I weas meant to be doing some single hand blindfolded chi sao that never materialised My sifu was kypros andreou he is in the back of WC book my life with wing cun
As for leung ting lineage I saw his tape and I met someone who had practised it and we exchanged a few pointers. I know its not fair to judge by looking at such a small amount but I was really dissapointed I thought yeesh this is BAD.
I also practised some other lineage I cant remember who though I keep thinking it was austin goh but I dont think so. This lineage was quite traditioal.