i have a well respected tcma sifu… also when the kids started getting into the mma and muaythai he went and get us a bunch of sparring gear… he’s happy we wanna hit eachother… and lots of guys there just do that one style but theres a few of us that do other styles aswell… some of the most senior guys are more than willing to recognize the merrit of full contact and grappling etc…
[QUOTE=Syn7;1042928]i have a well respected tcma sifu… also when the kids started getting into the mma and muaythai he went and get us a bunch of sparring gear… he’s happy we wanna hit eachother… and lots of guys there just do that one style but theres a few of us that do other styles aswell… some of the most senior guys are more than willing to recognize the merrit of full contact and grappling etc…[/QUOTE]
The practice of full contact training and even grappling are not limited to MMA schools. There are kung fu schools, as well as karate schools.
@ Forum Topic,
I was about to start the same thread! I’m so bored of this old conversation. COmparison of technique is fine, but when after a couple of posts it just turns into all out MMA vs KungFu. I mean i think most people understand what it is to train realistically but a lot of people don’t train realistically because they are interested in other areas of kung fu, and thats fine. Its a silly argument now.
I mean could we not have a ‘Pure Kung fu’ forum for example where people can discuss stuff like forms , techs and philosophies and histories and theories and unusual styles without some F@ckwit coming on and saying the ‘forms are useless for combat’… ’ that style is pointless against a grappler.'… I mean, so what, thats not new info, people still want to discuss these things. Who cares anymore? Every argument has been heard and evaluated and no ones orientation has changed. The other forums like shaolin or mantis are more serious, but there are many styles of kung fu that don’t fit into any of the categories and now that china has opened up a bit a lot more styles are becoming available. I think a ‘pure kung fu’ forum would be fun.
I mean where are styles like LiuHeQuan, ZhaQuan, Xinyiqan, Tongbei, Chuojiao, Fanzi, COntempary wushu, Hua quan, Chuan quan, Baihuquan, Baji quan, Mianzhang, YanQing, Mizong, EMEI Pai, Wudang Pai, Hong Quan, Erlang quan, GongLi quan, Pao quan, Pi Gua, Taizu, SunBin, Wen jia, Jin SUo quan, Gangroufa, HuZunquan, Mei Hua quan, Tian Gang quan, yumenquan, kongmen quan ETc etc, and thats just of the top of my head… These are northern styles, where are they supposed to be discussed?
hardwork 108,
[QUOTE] I doubt that most people here have had proper training under a proper sifu, or else they would not insist on making clueless criticizms of the TCMAs.
What we suffer in this forum is the phenomenom of many Mcdojo trained former “kung fu-ists”, who are now preaching the MMA ways, without having to admit that they had been duped by Mcdojo/kwoon marketing. So, they put down and criticize traditional CMA practices that are way above their heads, just to sell us their post Mcdojo, MMA “enlightenment”!
To know exactly what MMA has that Kung Fu can benefit from, one would first need intensive training in TCMA, under an authentic sifu, in an authentic kwoon, as solid and authentic MMA training does not qualify one to judge and disrespect traditional practices that one does not understand!
Here here! great post HD
rendaihai
I mean could we not have a ‘Pure Kung fu’ forum for example where people can discuss stuff like forms , techs and philosophies and histories and theories and unusual styles without some F@ckwit coming on and saying the ‘forms are useless for combat’… ’ that style is pointless against a grappler.'… I mean, so what, thats not new info, people still want to discuss these things. Who cares anymore? Every argument has been heard and evaluated and no ones orientation has changed. The other forums like shaolin or mantis are more serious, but there are many styles of kung fu that don’t fit into any of the categories and now that china has opened up a bit a lot more styles are becoming available. I think a ‘pure kung fu’ forum would be fun.
Another great post! these points you guys brought up is exactly what i was talking about, thank you
What I don’t understand is why some people still try to convince Glenn Beck that Obama is a good president.
Do you guys just have too much free time and can’t find any meaningful things to do?
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1042935]What I don’t understand is why some people still try to convince Glenn Beck that Obama is a good president.
Do you guys just have too much free time and can’t find any meaningful things to do?[/QUOTE]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw
.
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1042934]hardwork 108,
Here here! great post HD[/quote]
Thank you Earth Dragon,
That is why I get so much hassle from the MMA “grandmasters” of this forum. It is very difficult to discuss a genuine TCMA methodology when we have MMA-ists who will jump in and label that methodology as “fantasy”, and “fake”, etc. This happens time and again, and in a KUNG FU forum, at that.
Then sometimes we have Kung fu newbies, coming to this forum for advice about the TCMAs, and they are many times being told to cross train in BJJ, Muay Thai, and so on, to “improve” their kung fu, by people who have never really trained authentic kung fu in their lives.
I know, one couldn’t invent this stuff…LOL!
Anyway, I hope some of the MMA people here will get the message of your thread and keep their “enlightening” comments limited to the MMA threads and forums. I am also hoping that they only make their presences felt in the kung fu threads, through more respectful posts, including genuine questions regarding methodologies that they do not understand.
That way, they can also learn about the TCMAs, instead of trying to “teach” us about the supposed “superiority” of the MMAs.
The problem is that we always see this argument in the Kung Fu threads and forums, and not the MMA ones!
how do you know you go to mma forums and read up? honestly it’s just as bad or worse on mma forums, go over to bullshido and you’ll see that they have whole sections about how sh!tty TCMA are. Go to sherdog, mma junkie, etc. again whole sections on just that. So it’s not just here, if your going to comment on something at least know something about it.
you guys b!tch to much, seriously, it’s a free forum, who cares if you don’t like it go somewhere else. To much “truth” in what people are saying got you guys running scared or something? Last I checked people can post pretty much what they like, I’m glad people like you aren’t moderators or we would have a bunch of stuffy, pajama wearing, paranoid, “basement masters” here. seriously what happened to free thought and free discussion?
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1042931]The practice of full contact training and even grappling are not limited to MMA schools. There are kung fu schools, as well as karate schools.:)[/QUOTE]
oh, we dont grapple much and we dont have any ground fighting… i just said we have members that understand its needed to be a complete fighter and do it elsewhere… when we go to bak mei, we learn bak mei… nothing else…
and no, i think we’ve pretty much beaten this dead horse into dust, there is no ground fighting in tcma… and grappling is rudimentary and limited at best…
im just saying our sifu recognizes the merrrit in these practices…
so if you know the real kung fu, what is your answer to a double leg? how do you protect both levels in your standup??? how do you train that?? do you call in guys as opponents that actually have the ability to change levels on you in the way you would need to practice defending it???
what is it about what you train that is so different from the majority???
most martial arts arent complete, infact i cant think of one that is complete… the only way to round out is to study more styles… learn to defend against them…
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1042806]not to start controversy over this and not try to hurt feelings but why dont all the MMA on here create a MMA website so you can discuss the intertest that you share insead of coming onto a kung fu website and speaking badly about it?
It would seem this would aliviate alot of this bickering about who’s badder and whats better.
I dont log onto boxing websites and talk about how limited boxing is so why do the MMA guys do it here on a kung fu website?
I know its the MAIN board that gets most of these discussions but it is a kung fu magazine who created and host this board, so to me it doenst make much sense. unless of course they have some sort of self justification to prove to themselves.
serious replies only[/QUOTE]
Firstly it’s a free forum anyone can post, secondly every single one of what you call MMA guys has trained in some form of kung fu: Some have trained extensively under well known masters, some still train it, some consider what they do to be TCMA in its truest form, some are still interested in it and some are just curious and cant understand why when everyone talks about how good TCMA is for fighting no one can point to it in action and wonder how come when everyone agrees most TCMA sucks and is taught incorrectly by 90% of schools every single kung fu guy on this forum somehow managed to find one of the handful of authentic masters to train under (although they wont post who that master is or post any clips of them training ) :o)
Some of us also found pervious posts by the likes of merry dale and ross helpful in our training and now try to pass on what we believe was helpful to us in our evolution as martial artists…and some of us are just bored and like to start fights :o)
Notice no one, not even knife fighter has a go about people training for training sake or because they like the art, most of us respect that approach, where we do comment is on actual fighting training and application, grappling and training principles because that’s what we know, and those of us that know about some styles also post about them.
If you don’t like what we post fine don’t read it and ignore us, if you disagree with our points of view intelligently argue your point and include evidence to back up your assertions, if we post something you find offensive report it to the moderators but quit whining and moaning it makes you sound like a girl :o)
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1042926]The problem is that we always see this argument in the Kung Fu threads and forums, and not the MMA ones!
You know very well that the main antagonism comes from the MMA camp!
So they say, but I doubt that most people here have had proper training under a proper sifu, or else they would not insist on making clueless criticizms of the TCMAs.
What we suffer in this forum is the phenomenom of many Mcdojo trained former “kung fu-ists”, who are now preaching the MMA ways, without having to admit that they had been duped by Mcdojo/kwoon marketing. So, they put down and criticize traditional CMA practices that are way above their heads, just to sell us their post Mcdojo, MMA “enlightenment”!
To know exactly what MMA has that Kung Fu can benefit from, one would first need intensive training in TCMA, under an authentic sifu, in an authentic kwoon, as solid and authentic MMA training does not qualify one to judge and disrespect traditional practices that one does not understand!
How many of the MMA kung fu critiques have done that in this forum?
Unfortunately, most of the p!ssers and moaners in question are MMA-ists, and that is what the subject matter of this thread is highlighting, in due fact of this being a Kung Fu forum!![/QUOTE]
You know, I just want to say one thing. HW, your BS assumptions of you being the only person on this entire forum to train TCMA is ridiculous, even for you. You like to throw out accusations of the “knucklehead MMA” folks on here, such as me I guess, of never training in “true” TCMA yet you never have stated who your Sifu is/was, any clips of you training, or any shred of evidence that you are anything other than a sad demented troll with the mentality of a 15 year old living in your mother’s basement.
The fact that you continue to bash posters on here, some of which I know come from TCMA lineages far more impressive than yours, since, well, you have never produced any evidence you even train TCMA, makes you out as an a**ss clown of epic proportion. I just don’t get what you are so intimidated about. You rant on about how disrespectful these folks you call out are, yet I have never seen you be respectful to any of them either, even the ones who treat you with respect and actually listen to your idiotic rants.
Anyway, it is a free forum with free speech, for the most part. If KFM did not want discussion on MMA, they would not have added an MMA forum. Comparing it with Kung Fu sometimes does go in the main forum, but who really cares? If you don’t like the thread topic, don’t read it.
I once killed a man in Reno, just to watch him die.
I’m sorry, what were we talking about again?
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1042977]I once killed a man in Reno, just to watch him die.
I’m sorry, what were we talking about again?[/QUOTE]
the petitions to legalize it…
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1042977]I once killed a man in Reno, just to watch him die.
I’m sorry, what were we talking about again?[/QUOTE]
If more people listened to Johnny Cash, the world would be a better place.
I just don’t get what you are so intimidated about. You rant on about how disrespectful these folks you call out are, yet I have never seen you be respectful to any of them either, even the ones who treat you with respect and actually listen to your idiotic rants.
because David R. spanked his ass once and he’s butt sore. He’s had a chip on his shoulder for anyone that cross trains ever since. I BLAME DAVID R. 
[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;1042954]how do you know you go to mma forums and read up? honestly it’s just as bad or worse on mma forums, go over to bullshido and you’ll see that they have whole sections about how sh!tty TCMA are. Go to sherdog, mma junkie, etc. again whole sections on just that.[/quote]
Sorry, but I don’t have the time, nor the patience to go and read all the MMA forums. Since you do, then perhaps you should limit your uninformed criticisms of the TCMAs to those very forums and let the genuine kung fu practitioners in peace!
I know enough to say that most MMA kung fu critiques here would not know real kung fu, if it fell on their heads.
So now, the Kung Fu practitioners are required to leave a KUNG FU Forum, so that the MMA bunch can continue trolling and spreading their clueless misinformation about the TCMAs…Intersting concept?
Tell me, have you been getting hit a lot on the head recently, during your modern and “functional” MMA training?
Well, from what I have seen so far from the knee-jerk reaction of YOU, the MMA guys, it seems that you are the ones who have become insecure…lol
And there is your problem. This a Kung Fu Forum for people to use as an arena of the discussion of the various TCMA methodologies, not for “what they like”!!!
Where do you people get your education from, anyway???
I mean it is not rocket science!!!
And you should be, oh boy YOU SHOULD BE!
You know, when MMA guys like you, some of whom even claim kung fu experience, come up with revealing comments, such as the one above, it really solidifies the argument that you guys are just mere clueless trespassers in any TCMA forum!!!
Let me put it this way, when you lack a valid point of reference regarding the TCMAs, and solely base your arguments on your experience of MMA, combined with some McKung fu, then the concepts of freedom of thought and free discussion, begin to correlate with freedom to babble!!!
Sorry, but I don’t have the time, nor the patience to go and read all the MMA forums. Since you do, then perhaps you should limit your uninformed criticisms of the TCMAs to those very forums and let the genuine kung fu practitioners in peace!
free site, i’ll do what the hell i like.
I know enough to say that most MMA kung fu critiques here would not know real kung fu, if it fell on their heads.
and TCMA idiots as yourself couldn’t fight to save there life. So actually speaking of fighting most mma practitioners could critque.
So now, the Kung Fu practitioners are required to leave a KUNG FU Forum, so that the MMA bunch can continue trolling and spreading their clueless misinformation about the TCMAs…Intersting concept?
Only one who said anything about making people leave is yourself. I stated that if you don’t like the discussion then leave. Not “telling” people to do anything.
Well, from what I have seen so far from the knee-jerk reaction of YOU, the MMA guys, it seems that you are the ones who have become insecure…lo
haha some of the mma guys put up a few comments you didn’t like and now we are the ones insecure? lol
And you should be, oh boy YOU SHOULD BE!
I know right, there are enough NAZI’s in the world already without your leadership qualities.
Let me put it this way, when you lack a valid point of reference regarding the TCMAs, and solely base your arguments on your experience of MMA, combined with some McKung fu, then the concepts of freedom of thought and free discussion, begin to correlate with freedom to babble!!!
and being a NAZI control freak, you know about freedom don’t you. lol
[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;1042989]because David R. spanked his ass once and he’s butt sore.
[/QUOTE]
David R has endorsed this message
(So has all his different screen names)
[QUOTE=Syn7;1042958]oh, we dont grapple much and we dont have any ground fighting…[/quote]
Who is “we”? Have “we” trained, all the kung fu styles and sub styles under the sun? Is what “we” trained a genuine lineage with a genuine sifus?
Don’t take me wrong, these are genuine questions. The fact is that most kung fu schools out there, even the better known ones, do not and will not teach the real deal. However, most people here, including the MMA-ists:rolleyes: claim genuine kung fu knowledge, therefore see themselves as qualified to drag the TCMAs through the dirt, so to speak!!!
Some of these “genuises” do not even understand basic kung fu rootings, basic Internal principles, the scope of chi sao, basic body unity principles, and so on.
Unfortunately, they don’t understand the need to complete their kung fu systems, or at least build a solid understand of them, before they decide to improve, add on, or “complete” it with other training.
Also, IMHO, one can become a complete fighter using different approaches, yes even with cross training within the TCMAs, or TJMAs.
I doubt that there are many people who have really learned Bak Mei.
Are you speaking for the whole of the TCMAs?
Hey, one can know ones limits and complete the gaps of his knowledge any way he chooses, but that does not give that person the right to come into forums such as this and preach his way as the best, or the more complete, using sports tournaments as a point of reference!
I practice real kung fu. To know real kung fu will take a long time, and that is one of the points I also make in this forum, to those who have practiced MT, Judo, BJJ, Karate, TKD, Western Boxing, wrestling, and “kung fu”…
The difference is that both my sifus are real deal sifus. To use kung fu one needs to understand the principles, and forge the weapons. That means potent short/long range strikes; understanding of the ranges involved, and the various techniques that are applicable in those ranges.
The Mainland Chinese Wing Chun that I practiced had ground fighting training based on this arts concepts and principles. I had to leave the country before I reached that level. I still meet up with sifu when one of us travels, but we spend the time in polishing up what I know. Within a few years I should be spending more time with him in Brazil, then I can tell you more about this.
I also know that ther is at least one Northern Mantis school in Singapoore that practices ground fighting, and there is at least one Tiger Claw lineage that does that as well. Other kung fu styles will take the ground into consideration, as the wrestling arts were around in China before kung fu and during the development of kung fu. It is silly to assume that kung fu developed without taking into account the wrestling scenarion.
It is not question of complete but the question of a given martial art having a complete approach to fighting, that is taking consideration all of the ranges. It is silly for some people to assume that the TCMAs, and all of them at that, somehow forgot the ground scenario!