[QUOTE=Vankuen;996760]While i can appreciate the masturbating and copulating analogy to wing chun training, I’m not touching that with my ten-foot pole.
However, the idea that the style doesn’t work because of the gloves and becuase it doesn’t allow for maiming techniques doesn’t really float in my opinion either. [/QUOTE]
I never said that. I said, and I gave as evidence the films of fights, that even the remaining portion of the system after maiming is not being used in any example because of an inability, but not a necessary one, to train them live.
We all accept that gloves allow for more live training of punches.
There is no reason that chops and palm strikes should be seen any different. None.
The issue with the latter two is merely no product to allow for this on the market, but this is a minor thing, the fact that such padding helps train punches live is true, and so this carries over to the other two.
Now, if the bulk of your strikes are punches, chops, and strikes, and aliveness matters, then you are shortchanging yourself if you train one of the three with aliveness when you could do all three.
Further, if aliveness matters, then training that way, you will increasingly be far more capable with punches than the other two, and emphasize them far more than the original style intended, while the other two will lag in efficiency.
There is no good argument that such a methodology will necessarily lead to a reasonable representation of the original style, if aliveness matters, which I think we all believe it does.
The more you train this way, in answer to your question regarding whether more effort is needed, the more this will be the case.
If aliveness is important, then training all reasonable aspects(rulling out the antisocial stuff that doesn’t translate well) is essential, and, with the current gloves, it cannot reasonably be done with a partner, so we may have to improvise.
Now, we all can say “hey, I use chops in sparring,” but we all know they have to be ratcheted down to a point we are unwilling to ratchet down punches, and both for good reason, one because we need punches to be realistic, and the other because we know, without pads, realistic chops will hurt each other.
In this, the solution is probably the same solution we use for punches, but lacking this, how live is our training of an important percentage of our system’s striking, and thus, how much can we claim that we encapsulate our system if we train this way, much less if we train more this way?
Now, if I saw a wing chun vs. mma where a guy does more than stand there, or more than a move or two and then face real opposition that leads to stopping doing anything well before it really would be over, I’d talk about the problem of the style, but not doing anything is a lack of trained response, not a presence of style, and the mma response is the need for aliveness, for realistic training.
Once there was more than a token struggle, we could discuss the style. But what this is about is how it’s trained, how that person ingrained responses to what situations, and it is obviously a problem of aliveness.
The best solution is training it, which requires tools, and we have some, but they only allow a percentage of strikes when they could allow more.
More of the same is NOT the answer.
