[QUOTE=RD’S Alias - 1A;794234]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXJlVS_IxP4
Look at the second half of tis clip, from :40 on
He’s throwing Muy Tai Round Kicks a lot here. The clip has nothing to do with my point, it was just bizzar.[/QUOTE]
LOL !
Chuck is the man !
[QUOTE=RD’S Alias - 1A;794237]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqf42bsTXnY&mode=related&search=[/QUOTE]
Looks like Hop gar to me…
Dude, its a looping overhand right, I was taught that in boxing, though not a wide in the beginning, I assume Chuck is doing the overly wide thing for so they can understand that you must be “relaxed” and “club” the guy, rather than a typical right cross type of thing.
As for it being long fist, until chuck says he got if from long fist, it isn’t long fist.
What if he got it form his Kempo experiences? Somewhere in his Kempo past it could very well have come form Long Fist, and he would not even know it becasue Kempo history is so complicated and confusing.
[QUOTE=RD’S Alias - 1A;794248]What if he got it form his Kempo experiences? Somewhere in his Kempo past it could very well have come form Long Fist, and he would not even know it becasue Kempo history is so complicated and confusing.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps, I am wondering if it’s a type of “shovel hook”, kempo has them, as well as looping over heads with the thumb down…
That is what I am thinking. Knowing what little I do know about Kempo history, there is a long fist influence on the modern American Kempo.
[QUOTE=RD’S Alias - 1A;794255]That is what I am thinking. Knowing what little I do know about Kempo history, there is a long fist influence on the modern American Kempo.[/QUOTE]
American keNpo is one thing, KeMpo is another, but that is a different thread.
Fact is, IF Chuck got it from his original keN/Mpo and IF that system got it from Long fist, it means what ?
It means he’s using Kung Fu techniques in the UFC…and they work, which is contrary to popular belief.
[QUOTE=RD’S Alias - 1A;794260]It means he’s using Kung Fu techniques in the UFC…and they work, which is contrary to popular belief.[/QUOTE]
Ok then…The RNC is originally ( as introduced to the west via the east) a Judo move, from JJ, from probably a CMA influence, so…
This is coming from a more deep seated place than style.
Its more about the double standard of whats acceptable. Style bias.
Chuck does a similar punch that is identical to the one done in another style.
Whether or not its from long fist is irrelevant. They are exactly the same.
Yet chuck’s version is acceptable while the same exact technique will be seen as folly coming from the non-sanctioned styles.
We all put on our pants the same way. Throw the pants up in the air and do a double back flip into them before they touch the ground. Don’t you? Am i right?
Ok then…The RNC is originally ( as introduced to the west via the east) a Judo move, from JJ, from probably a CMA influence, so…
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That one is not very unique though. Lots of styles have it. It probably comes from ancient Greco /Roman if you go back far enough.
9 pages of blah blah blah
First: " the best way to get back at your enemies is to not answer them"
Second: Pure ignorance of martial arts history and even what most long fist (and other CMA arts are at their foundation).
Before the age of the gun, ALL military skills involved mastery of the Sword, Knife, and Spear. (Staff was for monks and old people). They were for middle and long range engagement.
THEY CAME FIRST - the empty hand stuff came as a result of “what happens if you drop your weapon”.
And lo and behold if you drop your weapon and engage in close range combat, you used the SAME movements as in your weapon drills EXCEPT the applications were now used for CHIN-NA, and takedowns. THE VERY SAME MOVEMENTS.
Eventually over the centuries the “favorite” techniques since they were the most effective and efficient techniques (or else the practitioner would have died!) were preserved and eventually taught to others.
People (for example Emperor Zhao Kuang Yin, among many) put these best practices techniques into an order that made it easier to remember and to use, hence “forms” came into existence DURING PEACE TIME (early Sung Dynasty, Ming Dynasty, Mid and later Qing Dynasty).
Military based arts do not have fluff, fluff makes you die.
Also, NO sets of any style (except modern fake styles) have “fluff”.
Only people with LITTLE KNOWLEDGE or EXPERIENCE to understand sets fully would think that a movement in a set is fluff.
Hence, these people have don’t know the NATURAL applications to the moves, and then label a style or form as “crap that won’t work”.
[QUOTE=SifuAbel;794264]This is coming from a more deep seated place than style.
Its more about the double standard of whats acceptable. Style bias.
Chuck does a similar punch that is identical to the one done in another style.
Whether or not its from long fist is irrelevant. They are exactly the same.
Yet chuck’s version is acceptable while the same exact technique will be seen as folly coming from the non-sanctioned styles.
We all put on our pants the same way. Throw the pants up in the air and do a double back flip into them before they touch the ground. Don’t you? Am i right? :D[/QUOTE]
fine, get a guy who is admittedly CMA to go into the same venue as Liddel and use the same techniques except from a CMA platform, and then it will be deemed acceptable; of course, the big argument “CMA is not designed for the ring” is the get-out-of-jail-free card for that, which is fine, but then don’t biotch about it if public opinon is biased towards that which is publically demonstrated in a repeatable, consistent manner (which is basically what Ross and others are doing with San Da, so maybe in a few years some of it will trickle up to UFC)
[QUOTE=Sal Canzonieri;794285]
Also, NO sets of any style (except modern fake styles) have “fluff”.
Only people with LITTLE KNOWLEDGE or EXPERIENCE to understand sets fully would think that a movement in a set is fluff.
Hence, these people have don’t know the NATURAL applications to the moves, and then label a style or form as “crap that won’t work”.[/QUOTE]
to this i will agree, but on the other side of this blade we have guys who actually ARE fluff, and will pose this same excuse.
i think what we, as TCMAists, need to do is find all the fluff factories we can and challenge them all to death matches.
I do all my weapons sets also empty handed.
I do all my empty hand sets with staff, double sword, or double knives.
The applications then JUMP out at you, if you have insight.
ALL Shaolin sets can be done with the staff.
Almost all sets can be done with double knives or double swords.
If not they can be done with a spear or a dagger.
Makes a giant leap to understand this.
(Also the application - one of - to the Shaolin classic ending is to ward off a incoming kick to the torso and roll off a strike to the head - duh! No fluff in this movement, I assure you.)
[QUOTE=cjurakpt;794286]fine, get a guy who is admittedly CMA to go into the same venue as Liddel and use the same techniques except from a CMA platform, and then it will be deemed acceptable; of course, the big argument “CMA is not designed for the ring” is the get-out-of-jail-free card for that, which is fine, but then don’t biotch about it if public opinon is biased towards that which is publically demonstrated in a repeatable, consistent manner (which is basically what Ross and others are doing with San Da, so maybe in a few years some of it will trickle up to UFC)[/QUOTE]
No, thats bull****. A punch is a punch.
[QUOTE=Lucas;794288]to this i will agree, but on the other side of this blade we have guys who actually ARE fluff, and will pose this same excuse.
i think what we, as TCMAists, need to do is find all the fluff factories we can and challenge them all to death matches.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, I have done my share of beating down karate and fake KF people during the late 70s-80s.
[QUOTE=SifuAbel;794290]No, thats bull****. A punch is a punch.[/QUOTE]
The straight punch in long fist with bow stance is a throw as well.
[QUOTE=cjurakpt;794286]fine, get a guy who is admittedly CMA to go into the same venue as Liddel and use the same techniques except from a CMA platform, and then it will be deemed acceptable; of course, the big argument “CMA is not designed for the ring” is the get-out-of-jail-free card for that, which is fine, but then don’t biotch about it if public opinon is biased towards that which is publically demonstrated in a repeatable, consistent manner (which is basically what Ross and others are doing with San Da, so maybe in a few years some of it will trickle up to UFC)[/QUOTE]
Didn’t Sugar Ray Leonard and George Foreman in their later year in the ring learn Xing Yi to help them be more efficient?
The answer is yes. They have said this in TV interviews I have watched.
So, CMA is useful in the ring.
Good points as always Sal!
BTW My Sifu and his Sifu used to watch Mike tyson fights and marvel at how good his SPM was. They say that the reason he started losing was he forgot his old style of fighting and got into some bad habits. Don’t know if he trained in SPM tho. Funny huh?