That is good to know. I don’t keep a closed mind whatever belief I might grow into. I practice Tai Chi because I like it. The slow movements and the exercise of the joints are very healthy and even without feeling the Chi, Tai Chi Chuan can still be an effective self defence martial art…if one day the awareness of Chi will come into me I will gladly accept it, otherwise I will go on practicing the way I do now. it is not a contest and I am in no hurry 
I never said they were identical. I said that the benefits you’ve been touting can also be gained through other exercise modalities. Tie Chee isn’t as incredibly unique and life changing as you’d have people think.
I knew you would say Jack Lalanne. Did I tell you I am somewhat psychic? I write these messages and then I hear you guys replying while I go about my day. I don’t hear the message word for word. What I get is something related to what you will say. I knew yesterday or the day before, I forget, you were going to talk about Jack LaLanne.
So now you’re psychic, yet you know absolutely nothing about me… Your comments further down in your post illustrate how very little you know about me, despite your so-called “psychic” abilities. I submit that this shows yet another bit of your personality, further defining the fantasy world you live in.
- Do you think that a man growing up in 1940 is the same as a man growing up in 2000? 2) Do you think American culture has changed from 1940 to 2000? 3) You might want to ask yourself, out of thousands and thousands of weightlifters, why can you only name two that look OK?
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What’s your point? Yes, they are the same. Humans haven’t changed in the last 60 years…
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Again, what’s your point? Has “culture” changed? Certainly. Has physical science, specifically exercise science, changed in that time? Certainly. However, the physiological reaction of the human body to exercise has not.
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I only name two because I only know those two by name. I don’t keep a running tally of all the older men and women who, through regular, rigorous exercise, have bettered their lives. There are plenty. I’m sure doctors will readily support exercise, whatever the form, and I’m positive that, barring specific structural issues, they’ll never dissuade someone from lifting weights because it’s “bad for them” as you claim…
I can walk up and down the street and get about 20 chinese people who are 80 and look 50. On my block. These chinese people go to the community center every morning at 8 oclock and do Tai Chi.
Good for you. There’s also the interesting genetic tendency of Asians, Pacific Islanders, etc., to appear younger than their chronological age well into their later years… I suspect this has absolutely nothing to do with the issue, right? :rolleyes: My wife is 3 months younger than I am, but people regularly claim she is at least 10 years younger than her age. Why would that be, especially when she doesn’t practice Tie Chee?
You really have no clue. I hope you don’t have people listening to you. You could cure your ingnorance very easily by spending a few days reading some books. Or you could keep displaying your ignorance to the people you meet.
I will display your ignorance right here for everyone to see. Why does a human being sweat? What does sweating do to the body. If you have a brain in your head, you will wonder why I am asking such an “obvious” question. If you don’t have a brain, please go to the dictionary and look up the word “trap”. It is spelled “T” “R” “A” “P”.
Okay, I’ll let you spring your psychic trap… Sweating is the simple process by which the body regulates its own temperature. Moisture on the skin aids in the reduction of heat in the body as air passing over the moisture (sweat, in this case) more rapidly cools the body. Now, where’s your “trap?” How is sweating “bad” for you, and overheating (heat exhaustion, heat cramps, heat stroke) is not?
Yes there is. No. No.
So you’ve never had someone instill in you the warrior ethos that is inherent in martial training? Sad, really, that you’ve been limited to only the “scholar” aspect you cite so often… It seems then that your “martial arts” aren’t very martial at all…
So arrogant. You don’t see yourself do you? You are the bad guy. You are the bad guy that looks at Jet Lee and says “He is a midget”. You are the bad guy that looks at Chuck Norris and calls him a weenie. You are the bad guy that looks at Bruce Lee and says “he is just a skinny asian”.
You know this about me how, exactly? Your “psychic” delusions again? I’m only the bad guy to you because I’m challenging your skewed perception of reality… :rolleyes:
Now knowing how people like you think, instead of admitting your behavior resembles the loud mouths in the movies pushing the kung fu master, you will say “Oh look. He thinks he is Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, or Jet Li”.
People like me? You know nothing about me. Your assumptions, “psychic” or not, are wholly incorrect. And you’re continuing in your movie references… Have you ever really met one of these kung fu masters in real life? Please, name names…
I really don’t understand your motivation. Do you want what I say to be true, but you are afraid to beleive me because I might trick you? Are you jealous that I might really know what I say I know? Are you full of hormones and you want to be challenging and angry?
My motivation is a lack of tolerance for people who make statements publicly, as you do, that fly in the face of common sense and scientific fact. It is a combination of statements like yours, and pathetic, dead training that has eroded the quality of Chinese martial arts specifically, and martial arts in general, and continues to degrade what people far better than either of us have worked entire lifetimes to achieve.
If you could prove any of your claims, I’m sure the scientific community would be astounded. You’d be a historical figure, for sure. But I doubt that you’d “stoop so low” as to have your “psychic” skills tested and evaluated (you’re morally above that kind of cheapening of your skills, I’m sure) so that others could know the “truth.” And I’m far too old to be motivated by excessive hormonal surges… :rolleyes:
My story is proof that talking stops violent people.
Your story is proof that you stood there and did nothing, hoping your potential assailant left you alone. For “talking” to be effective, you’d have to have taken an active part in the matter, which by your account you didn’t. You stood there, giving nods and the occasional “oh really,” and finally the man walked away. You did nothing.
I knew 2 or 3 days ago you would remark that I called him black. I answered you back then so let me go ahead and type it out for you since I guess you didn’t hear me.
You answered me 2 or 3 days ago? Really? :rolleyes: I better go check my psychic answering machine… I haven’t checked it lately… :rolleyes:
When describing people, despite all the blather about stereotypes etc, people do get your meaning. If I said a man was bothering me, it could be any man. What if it was a 4 foot 3 inch midget who was bothering me? Then what I did would mean nothing. A midget is not threatening.
But why does it have to be a “big black man” that is scary and threatening? Why couldn’t you have just described him as X feet tall, XXX pounds? You bring race into it because it threatens you…
It is a description that is factual. It is only turned into something dirty by people like you.
Factual is “male, 6 feet tall, approximately 200 pounds.” Emotional is “big, black man.”
You’re the one that lives in a world where people know things without direct experience or evidence. You tell me why they seem to single you out…
Sure I was scared. He was a big, 250 lb black guy with lots of muscles. It is called intelligence. You know what you are capable of and you judge the likely outcome of the fight. It was most likely he would have kicked my ass. I have no problem saying that. Maybe I don’t like it, but that is how life is.
Then why do you study martial arts? It seems that your 10 - 15 years of training has been wasted if you can’t feel confident in your ability to at least hold your own, if not win outright. One man, based on size and weight alone, most likely untrained, and you can’t feel that you would be capable of defending yourself… Speaks volumes of the training you’ve received from your esteemed Chinese masters, as well as volumes on their ability to fight as well…
If a professional fighter gets his butt beat and put in the hospital for 3 days by a man who is bigger and heavier than he is, what is the liklihood that I, a person with a life who only trains for an hour or so a day, would end up in the hospital for 3 days if I tried to fight a 250 muscular man? Why would I do something so stupid? Because I am afraid you will make fun of me? I will let you have your fun. I hate to pay hospital bills. I am also not very fond of pain.
You train for only an hour or so a day, for 10 - 15 years (off and on). That’s not training, that’s a hobby. It’s no wonder you’ve never developed any real skill.
Isn’t that what I said I did?
No, you said you were able to stop the fight by talking. That implies involved, active participation in the event. You didn’t do that. You stood by, observing your own encounter almost as if a removed third party, and you hoped by not speaking up that your assailant wouldn’t get angered and do you bodily harm. That’s amazing weakness, that you couldn’t even take an active role by engaging him in conversation about why he felt the way he felt… Instead, you just rolled up in a figurative ball and hoped the big, bad man would go away. You buried your head in the sand. The reality is that you’re desperately lucky. My entire point was that if someone was really intent on doing you harm, your “talking” wouldn’t stop that at all… In this case, you didn’t even talk. You stood still, nodded occasionally, and prayed for mercy.
Why? You do not beleive me. No one else here believes me. That means that I AM better than everyone here doesn’t it? I know or can do things that no one else here knows or can do. Or maybe they are hiding?
Um, no… What it means when everone else doesn’t believe you is that there’s every possibility you are the one that’s wrong. Their not believing you does not, most assuredly, mean you are “better” than everyone.
You are proof of what I say. Wake up and look at what is going on here. Why do you think I called myself overweight? Because I know you. I know that you will take that comment and do exactly what you are doing now.
Okay, then tell me more about myself… Describe me with your psychic skills.
You are a hater that knows commercial kung fu. You have no knowledge of what real chinese old time ancient kung fu is about. You have no knowledge of what real kung fu can do for you. You seem not to have been exposed to the concept of a scholar warrior.
Again, please use your psychic abilities to describe me, my training, my art, my teacher. Go ahead… I’ll enjoy this, I’m sure.
I think you are probably a street fighter or a ring fighter or a policeman or a military man. Maybe a gang member. An angry person who wants to hurt people. You look for an outlet for your physical aggression by hurting whoever your target is. I know you and I know people just like you.
You “know” me? I think not. Please, apply your “psychic” abilities and ascertain more about me…
What he was was a pathetic individual with a small ego. He was a childish sadist with no thought of the ramifications of his actions. He messed up a person’s leg, maybe permanently, just so he could come back to class and brag about what he did.
Perhaps he was glad that he was able to stop a criminal and help society in a greater context through having done so.
I got in trouble over that. I said he was a loser and that doing that was wrong. Boy did the instructor get mad! He literally told me I should leave if I thought that what the policeman did was wrong. That was one of the incidents that began to show me my instructor was a sadist that enjoyed hurting people. That was a real bummer.
Or perhaps it showed your inability to grasp a larger picture. Who was the “loser?” The cop for doing his duty in the least dangerous way (he tripped him… He could have shot him, tackled him, pushed him into the street, etc., all far more injurious than simply tripping him), or the criminal?
You equate mood, which is a measure of emotion, to spiritual enlightenment or attainment. I did not realize the two were related.
Your statements depend on your viewpoint. Anything in the world can be described from a variety of viewpoints. I claim that a mystic or hermit attains a rarefied and refined sensitivity that is only possible because of their seclusion. If they come into contact with low people, the low people drag them down from their hight point. My way of looking at it says the hermits are high people and the other people are low people.
You say the hermit is hiding. That is a negative statement. Does a person hide from a rabid dog? Or do they intelligently stay away from it because it will bite them and make them sick? The description is subjective. It depends on what type of judgement you wish to put on the person. I am saying that regular people are like a rabid dog to a refined person. The refined person avoids them from common sense and intelligence, not because he is protecting a fantasy world as you claim.
Your way of looking at things says the hermit is a low person while the other people are higher persons. But if you look at the factual situation, your opinion is wrong. The hermit has a concrete higher attainment of spirituality. He is a more sensitive person. He has a talent that the low people do not. Maybe the regular people are more talented in other areas, but in the area of personal refinement, the hermit does have higher attainment.
You lost me as soon as you said women. You don’t understand enlightenment. Or maybe you are being funny and I am taking what you say seriously. On a regular guy level, yes that is funny and we can nudge each other and wink about it. But on a level of serious discussion about enlightenment, there is a reason that holy people have a reputation of avoiding women.
Your grain of salt comment is making me laugh. To see people like you who honestly believe that I am someone who needs to be talked back to reality…To me, you are an ignorant person who has been filled with lies by people who want to deny you the opportunity to gain power.
So you’re a self-proclaimed psychic, closet racist (both in your support of the theory that only Chinese people can understand, perform, and teach kung fu, as well as in the way you choose to describe people who threaten you), and misogynist that advocates social seclusion in order to attain some mystical state…
Yeah, you’ve got a good hold on the real world. :rolleyes:
Yes it is.
I submit that you need to remove the pole from your behind and learn to smile once in awhile.
There is no point in talking to you. You are unable to think or you are being purposefully obtuse.
U need to read a chinese medicine book.
No. It is the focus of aggressive and small minded individuals like yourself on the violent fighting aspect of martial art that is diluting the effectiveness of the martial arts in the west.
People are too small. They are all like you. You won’t talk to me to see if what I know has any validity. You just keep hammering away at what kind of person I am or how what I say is impossible. You and they are not interested in what reality is. To me it appears that envy makes you attack people that say they know something that you do not.
You are vile. And you revel in it. You think it gives you power to be abusive to other people. What it does is make you sick. Hope you enjoy it. You will pay in the long run.
Your words expose you for what you are. You are evil. Any person can read what you wrote above and clearly see that your intent is evil. You wish to cause the maximum pain and/or harm that you can. Why? Why do you feel the need to do that? Is it a job for you? Do you have an ego problem? Abusing people makes you feel bigger?
I have come here and posted my opinions. At no time did I make long abusive attacks on you or anything about you. I remarked that I felt your training was lacking or that your ideas were wrong. I did not go out of my way to be hurtfully abusive.
You do know that everyone that reads that must be thinking to themselves, “what kind of mean and hateful person would say those things”? I think that the people here are adults. This is not your high school gang where you are kicking the small kid and all your buddies are clapping their hands and saying “get him”. We are supposed to be adults who are above that. I hope.
Well, glad it’s changed your life so much… However, your singular experience does not the standard make.
I submit that you need to remove the pole from your behind and learn to smile once in awhile.
I smile quite often, especially when reading your posts. 
There is no point in talking to you. You are unable to think or you are being purposefully obtuse.
The only thing I’m being, purposefully, is skeptical of any claims you make, especially since you won’t recognize that you appear to be alone in the support of your theories.
Please, clarify for me, beyond the obvious technological advances made over the last 60 years, how are people significantly any different than they were at the early part of the 1900s?
U need to read a chinese medicine book.
I have. You need to read a Western medicine book. Natural processes are not bad. Certainly, there are excessive conditions that exist, indicative of other underlying problems, but sweating caused by exercise is not now, never has been, nor ever will be “bad for you.”
No. It is the focus of aggressive and small minded individuals like yourself on the violent fighting aspect of martial art that is diluting the effectiveness of the martial arts in the west.
Again, you rely on your psychic powers to determine what kind of person I am, right? I disagree with you, and I refuse to relent in that disagreement (as my theories are based in reality, and yours are based in fantasy), so therefore I’m aggressive and small minded. Not hardly.
And how, pray tell, does practicing the fighting aspects of martial arts dilute their ability to be applied? That fails the simplest logic test available…
You won’t talk to me to see if what I know has any validity.
You have yet to say anything that supports, validates, or otherwise outlines in a scientific, factually based fashion, the outrageous claims you make. When you do, I’ll address your comments as you present them, as I have done with the comments you’ve made thusfar.
You just keep hammering away at what kind of person I am
I hammer away at what you present here. I stick to the image you portray based solely upon your comments in this thread and others. You are the one that has made forays into my personal life, taking liberties with defining what kind of person you think I am in real life…
or how what I say is impossible.
Your claims are impossible. Show me evidence to the contrary, something besides your opinions (based on what you’ve seen in movies or read in books), something based in fact.
You and they are not interested in what reality is.
While I realize perception = reality, the perception of the larger group defines the larger view of reality. Your personal perception of zombies and vampires around every corner may be your reality, but it hardly makes it “real” to the rest of the world. Things that are testable, quantifiable, reproduceable, define reality, not the individual ravings of a person with extreme belief systems.
To me it appears that envy makes you attack people that say they know something that you do not.
Again with the personal attack… What do you think I envy? Your inability to stand up for yourself? Your inability to use your MARTIAL art the way it was intended? Your insistence on racial labeling to justify your fears? Hardly… :rolleyes:
You are vile. And you revel in it. You think it gives you power to be abusive to other people. What it does is make you sick. Hope you enjoy it. You will pay in the long run.
How will I “pay?” How am I “vile” because I won’t give in and accept that your skewed perception does not define my reality, nor the reality of others? You’re the one upon which the burden of evidence rests… You claim things, so prove them. Otherwise, crawl back into the clover-laden meadow in which you meditate upon pleasant thoughts as you separate yourself from us “lower” people…
How am I evil? What is it that I’m doing that violates moral law? Because I won’t stand by, suspending my common sense in order to allow you to dance around claiming all manner of nonsensical abilities?
I find it particularly interesting that you have yet to step up and defend your claims to psychic abilities… You’re avoiding that one quite nicely.
I have come here and posted my opinions. At no time did I make long abusive attacks on you or anything about you.
You’ve called me small, evil, and vile. That’s pretty abusive. The worst I did was rephrase a description of you that you provided… I’ve posted my opinions, which are contrary to yours but supported with facts; yours are not and you continually avoid doing so, expecting instead that we all accept your authority “just 'cuz.” Not likely to happen…
I remarked that I felt your training was lacking or that your ideas were wrong. I did not go out of my way to be hurtfully abusive.
Believe me, if I wanted to be hurtful and abusive, you’d certainly know it by this point. I’ve simply taken what you’ve said, separated each point and rebutted it. I have called no names, as you have done. I have simply pointed out the blatant flaws in everything you’ve said up to now.
You do know that everyone that reads that must be thinking to themselves, “what kind of mean and hateful person would say those things”? I think that the people here are adults. This is not your high school gang where you are kicking the small kid and all your buddies are clapping their hands and saying “get him”. We are supposed to be adults who are above that. I hope.
Yeah, you’re right… I’m just a high school kid. That’s why I won’t buy your BS hook, line and sinker. It’s because I’m just too “low” to know better, right? :rolleyes:
Hello Mr YiLiQuan1. I regret to say I can no longer deal with you.
Your heart is full of hate. You have so much hate that it has given you diarrhea. In your reponses to my posts, you do not respond to what I say, you defecate on what I say. You take each thing I say and you very carefully defecate all over it.
If I say something about myself, you defecate on it. If I mention my opinion, you defecate on it. If I say that someone else told me something, you first defecate on them, then you defecate on what they said.
You and I do not need to speak to each other. You need to go to the drugstore and buy something to cure your diarrhea.
I would recommend a church or a group of friendly people. You have overexposed yourself to martial arts so much that you have become a monster that most good people would shun.
I wish I could have done something to turn you away from the dark side. I guess I am not strong enough yet.
We all make choices, don’t we?
Your heart is full of hate. You have so much hate that it has given you diarrhea. In your reponses to my posts, you do not respond to what I say, you defecate on what I say. You take each thing I say and you very carefully defecate all over it.
No, my heart is actually not full of hate, but I certainly have a low tolerance level for BS. I further have a self-professed inability to suspend my common sense and good judgement to accept your claims of paranormal abilities, especially when said abilities fly in the face of scientific evidence.
I respond directly to what you say, asking questions and demanding proof. You avoid the answer and instead demand that I (and others) accept what you say “just because.” I do not “defecate” on what you say, I simply dissect it and respond to each and every piece separately. You have yet to respond to anything I’ve asked… For example, use your psychic powers to describe me, as thusfar you’ve been completely incorrect. Or was that the result of your psychic description? If it was, it’s proof that you are not psychic as you previously claimed…
If I say something about myself, you defecate on it. If I mention my opinion, you defecate on it. If I say that someone else told me something, you first defecate on them, then you defecate on what they said.
Your imagery is entertaining, but inaccurate. You make a claim, I dispute it. I ask for clarification, description, detail, proof, while you skirt the issue, avoiding providing what was asked for, and instead make a personal attack. Which of the two of us has the bigger problem?
You and I do not need to speak to each other. You need to go to the drugstore and buy something to cure your diarrhea.
You might consider a similar trip to obtain something to cure your delusions…
I would recommend a church or a group of friendly people. You have overexposed yourself to martial arts so much that you have become a monster that most good people would shun.
So you’ve called me evil, vile, small, low, and now I’m a monster that “good people” would shun. You certainly paint an interesting picture, though wholly inaccurate.
I wish I could have done something to turn you away from the dark side. I guess I am not strong enough yet.
Whatever… Please, address the questions asked of you. Any other responses, especially personal attacks on me, are nothing more than continued evidence of your inability to back up what you say.
Enjoy your Sunday.
Whoa ! Back the F*** up ! Johnny, someone in a park picked up your dog and threw him and you didn’t kick his a** ? If that doesn’t get your intent fired up then you should forget martial arts and start eating meat.
and yiliquan1, what the 7734 is tie chee ? (without using the word hippie in your definition)
In my perspective, as well as that of others with whom I’ve spoken on the subject, there are several “variants” of any given martial art. In any situation, there are two extremes and one “balance,” right? In the case of Taijiquan it breaks down as follows:
Genuine Taijiquan - taught, trained, and preserved as the fighting art it originally was; additional non-physical benefits are recognized as secondary developments, and are not the focus of training.
Tai Chi Chuan - taught and trained primarily as a fitness modality, with an emphasis on integrating “body and mind;” acknowledges origin as a fighting art, but does little, if any, training beyond gentle push-hands drills.
Tie Chee(se) - taught as a method of self-cultivation, focusing heavily on the meditational aspects as intended for developing metaphysical powers and enlightenment; denies origins of art as a fighting method, and instead ascribes the original intent of its creation as a way to better the self (which is in direct contradiction to actual history).
That’s just an example, overall… There are certainly gradations between each benchmark from one extreme to another, but I’m sure you get the gist of it from the explanation above.
Enjoy.
It does seem to be hard finding actual combat taiji, people actually fighting with taiji.
A lot of the problem seems to be that most teachers do not know the actual applications of the taiji and instead draw from other martial arts for the applications, or they try to make them up.
Compound that with the problem that each branch of taiji has different forms, and different applications, and there aren’t any standards. It is unfortunate there are no standards and it’s so fragmented.
If you were to take one kind of taiji and try to practice with others from another school I have no idea how that would work since each teacher or group leader would have their own ideas.
I’ve been looking for a place to practice around Seattle that seems a bit open in what they do but haven’t found any place that is willing to be flexible in what they do.
I don’t think most people are even aware of the potential… I seriously believe that at least 90%, if not more, of Taiji players are completely ignorant of the combative value of the art.
A lot of the problem seems to be that most teachers do not know the actual applications of the taiji and instead draw from other martial arts for the applications, or they try to make them up.
From my experience with other martial arts, most of them don’t know what’s going on in the other forms either… It’s a rarity to have someone really capable of dissecting forms/kata, and still another thing to make that breakdown work against a non-resistant opponent…
I’ve been looking for a place to practice around Seattle that seems a bit open in what they do but haven’t found any place that is willing to be flexible in what they do.
What is it, specifically, that you’re looking for?
Well basically I guess, a class that has CMA partner work without enforcing any style. I found somebody in Bothell to work with, so for example, I would punch and he would do his move, and we would trade. That seemed to work okay but he would want me to do his style, which I didn’t really like. I tried before to do partner practice with somebody else once and he also took the teacher tack rather than just a practice partner.
I guess maybe finding something like this isn’t going to happen.
The downside to just “training” with a friend is that, especially if they do something different, at some point you’re going to have to give in and do their stuff so that they can get something out of it… Otherwise, it’s a one-sided session, and that doesn’t help the “out” partner develop.
I forget if you said how long you’d trained, but you might consider finding a school similar to what you’ve done before and joining there. That’d at least keep things “in the family” in a sense, and you can still practice what you’ve done previously, with similarly oriented students, as well as expand your information base… I doubt you’ll find someone who’ll just let you come in to hang out, train, cross arms with students, all while giving nothing back to the students you train with in return (not meaning $$$ here, either).
I don’t think I’d agree with that. For example, if from a punch, if this guy did an aikido style throw, and in exchange from a punch, you did a karate style throw, why would you have to do his style? You are just being ukes to each other. This particular guy had a lot of Aikido in his background and I’m not really into Aikido.
The reason I quit practicing with him is he couldn’t just trade techniques. He would want to teach me his technique and he would want to learn my technique, so out of a 2 hour practice session, 90% of it was talking and I got about 10 minutes of actual practice.
I forget if you said how long you’d trained, but you might consider finding a school similar to what you’ve done before and joining there. That’d at least keep things “in the family” in a sense, and you can still practice what you’ve done previously, with similarly oriented students, as well as expand your information base… I doubt you’ll find someone who’ll just let you come in to hang out, train, cross arms with students, all while giving nothing back to the students you train with in return (not meaning $$$ here, either).
I don’t understand what you mean by giving back. It would seem that students would want to practice their techniques against somebody from another style.
It really seems most of it is the $$$ thing plus an ego thing, I guess. It seems that the instructors just want to make their money off of teaching forms for years. They say it is because you have to learn proper mechanics and all that but most of the applications aren’t different just because the form is different.
I’d try to find another related style but look around Seattle for taiji and each instructor not only teaches their own version but their own applications and requires you to do it their way with their own shen fa (body movement), emphasis, etc. And if you don’t want to do it exactly their way you can’t train with them. Personally I don’t like what I’ve seen from these places, and they do way too much forms work.
So I think the only solution probably is to move someplace and study with somebody you don’t think does things wrong, I guess.
Because often, in order to practice certain drills that are very style specific, and require that the “uke” have a fair grounding in the drill to remain safe, it will necessitate learning that new drill “their way.”
When I was in Japan, I had a friend with whom I would “trade” information. I taught him Yiliquan, he taught me Modern Arnis. It’s one thing to fight against another person, quite another to work drills and exercises. I eventually just focused on learning Modern Arnis, which allowed him to have a practice partner against whom to practice his Modern Arnis techniques…
You are just being ukes to each other. This particular guy had a lot of Aikido in his background and I’m not really into Aikido.
That’s another good example… Aikidoka practice their techniques with a certain tempo, a certain amount of give and take in order to gradually develop their timing, distance, etc. If someone who isn’t an aikidoka tries to train with an aikidoka, especially a less experienced one, it’ll prevent at least the aikidoka from developing along aikido lines… Not necessarily a bad thing, mind you, just that if developing aikido is the other guy’s goal, he’s not going to get what he wants out of the exchange…
The reason I quit practicing with him is he couldn’t just trade techniques. He would want to teach me his technique and he would want to learn my technique, so out of a 2 hour practice session, 90% of it was talking and I got about 10 minutes of actual practice.
Yeah, get two martial artists together and a conversation is bound to break out!
I don’t understand what you mean by giving back. It would seem that students would want to practice their techniques against somebody from another style.
If someone comes to a school with a teacher and 10 students (for example), that teacher is there to convey information to the students, and the students are there to get that information. If that someone comes in, not wanting the information, nor holding the same goals that the other 10 students want (that is, learning the art that school teachers), and only wants to cross arms to develop his own skills, then alll that someone does is interfere with the goals of the students… He gives back little, especially to junior students who are still building a foundation in their particular art.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever with testing one’s skills against another art, whether it’s in a resistant, noncompliant manner or in a cooperative one. Both are beneficial. However, when both person A and B desire advancement and development in arts X and Y, they are going to be counterproductive to the other’s development. Cross-training and personal skill testing are fine, but they require a firm grounding in basic (and intermediate and advanced) technique.
It really seems most of it is the $$$ thing plus an ego thing, I guess. It seems that the instructors just want to make their money off of teaching forms for years. They say it is because you have to learn proper mechanics and all that but most of the applications aren’t different just because the form is different.
I can’t speak for other schools or instructors, but I know that that isn’t the case with our group… We make absolutely no money from our students; they pay their tuition directly to the school we rent space from, and we never see a dime of it. Our senior instructor and I pool our funds into a “kitty” from which we draw to pay for supplies, expenses, etc.
I’d try to find another related style but look around Seattle for taiji and
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each instructor not only teaches their own version but their own applications and
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requires you to do it their way with their own shen fa (body movement), emphasis, etc.
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And if you don’t want to do it exactly their way you can’t train with them.
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Personally I don’t like what I’ve seen from these places,
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and they do way too much forms work.
Well,
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That’s going to be the case, no matter with whom you train… Your training partner is going to have things he wants to work on, so it’s kind of the same thing, really…
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Well, they’re teaching their style (one way or another), not yours… How could they teach your style and your shen fa?
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That’s jacked up, but in an arrogant fashion it’s understandable… In a sense, and I don’t mean this in a negative light, it’s the same position you’re taking - if you can’t do what you want to do, the way you want to do it, you won’t do it (study at their school) at all.
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I have yet (after living here for 3+ years) to actually get out and about up there. I’ve got it on good authority that Andy Dale’s training is top notch, and I’ve heard good things about a few other CMAists up there whose names escape me currently. Then again, I’ve seen a lot of crap down this way though…
So I think the only solution probably is to move someplace and study with somebody you don’t think does things wrong, I guess.
Sillier things have happened… My kids’ godfather moved from Lincoln, NE to Omaha, NE to train with Sifu Starr after being convinced our training was better than what he was doing at the time. He had no real job prospects, no real attachment to Omaha, but he pulled up stakes and moved anyway.
Good luck in your search. You’re welcome to come down and check us out anytime…
I have nothing against Andy Dale. He’s an extremely nice guy and has always answered my questions and never got mad at me or tried to put me down.
However, if his training is ‘top notch’, then I’m afraid somebody’s idea of martial arts training is seriously skewed. I went to his classes for about a month before it became obvious that he couldn’t hurt a fly.
http://www.wuji.com/images/videos/Liang%20Yi%20Quan.wmv
http://www.wuji.com/images/videos/Bagua%20Clip.WMV
Yeah I don’t know if I’ll ever get down there. Maybe if you guys post a few clips up on the web it will convince me. 