Now Available!
Too bad they didn’t catch the idea that the novel RR is writing IS ficticious!
BTW, I still read Complete Wing Chun very often to refresh my memory about where the different families came from.
One huge thing that Complete did for me was open up my mind to possibilities.
We still like you Rene!
Kenton Sefcik
Jim - Cool!
Kenton - I still look at Complete Wing Chun too! 
Hope everyone is enjoying the previews. I’ll have new excepts up every Thursday, and new sample pages every second Monday in the Q & A, including the TOC soon!)
RR,
U know you made it when you get pulled into forum discussions!
:eek:
Peace,
LOL! How’re things with you? Still runnin’?
RR,
Shoudn’t we save this conversation for the “private e-mail list”? 
hahahahahehehehe
Yeah! Not bad man! Work work work. Little bit of fun and then more work! Uggg!
Life is good tho!
Stay healthy!
Peace,
Well all I can say is that you are allowed to go to hfy108 and read such postings. When I had identified myself as a student of hfy on rr’s forum I was quickly taken off. I tried to get back on but was denied access for reasons I was not privleged to. I have not let it get undermy skin though. It was a long time ago and I have since moved forward from that.
Marty R.
It was a long time ago and I have since moved forward from that.
Which presumably is why you posted about it here, now.
Well all I can say is that you are allowed to go to hfy108 and read such postings.
You can read the posts on Rene’s forum without registering as well. I’m sure Rene has better things to do than bump HFY practitioners from his forum whne they identify themselves.
I reckon I’d last about five minutes on HFY108, but a forum full of partisan propaganda as demonstrated by the posts referred to earlier in the thread is of no interest to me.
Success is the best revenge, Rene. Those losers want to drag everyone down to their own levels of mediocrity.
All the good guys/gals are with you on this one.
Marty R - Forgive me for not remembering you but you, as any WCK practitioner of any lineage, were always, are always, and will always be welcome on any forum I admin.
And if you have any problem whatsoever getting on any of them at any time, just ping me and let me know and I’ll get you on asap. If you don’t trust email, drop me a post here, private or public, and I’ll get you on asap. Same goes for anyone/everyone else.
Andrew - No worries, everything apps!
Thanks for the reply Rene but it was a few years ago and I did do what you had asked then and got denied a couple of times but still was denied. As I had said before I have moved on from that and not once said anything bad about you or the wck site . All that was said was what had happened to me personally. If they still want to take pot shots at me for not saying anything negative in the first place then we know the stature of that person. Once again thank you for the reply.
Marty R.
Well that was a fairly interesting read. To quote Benny Meng sifu:
No one has mentioned about the Hung Fa Ting, Hung Fa Wui or Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun until Grand Master Gee released it to the public.
This does seem to ring true as far as Wing Chun goes, but …
Rene is not the first to use “Hung Fa Wui” and “Tin Dei Wui” in martial fiction. Sorry Rene but you’re going to have to make way for a “real” acclaimed wuxia author: Jin Yong
“Hung Fa Wui” and “Tin Dei Wui” already feature in 2 of his works. If anyone is interested, the following English translations exist.
“Hung Fa Wui” is in “The Book and The Sword”
“Tin Dei Wui” is in “The Deer and The Cauldron”
Marty R - Fair enough. However, I have heard similar stories from several people of different lineages and in every case it was due to mail server instability (Yahoo and Hotmail accounts caused a lot of drops for us in years past but seem more stable now). I can understand the urge to take such things personally (just had to deal with an irate fella from Pakistan claiming racial bias because he couldn’t get on when he actually wasn’t even filling out the form…) but like I said, I want everyone on. I want lively, energetic discussion with as many different, even passionate points of view as possible. In any event, I keep complete email archives so I will check into it over the weekend and see if I can find anything.
CFT - Hung Fa Wui was first mentioned in the West in the Yip Chun article in Geneology of the Ving Tsun Family and then by Eddie Chong & Michael Nedderman in an Inside Kung-Fu article on the late Pan Nam sifu EDITED TO INCLUDE LINK TO ARTICLE. Both were based on Pan Nam’s accounts, which also included the first Western references to Cheung Ng, the Red Turban uprising, Yip Man-Ching (sic) burning the opera, etc. and were based on the previous Chinese articles by a (non-Wing Chun) reporter who visited Pan Nam sifu and included some very interesting theories which tried to tie together the various elements into broader history and background. There was also a Japanese article way back then too with a very interesting family tree along similar lines.
I very much enjoyed Deer and the Cauldron but haven’t gotten around to reading Book and the Sword yet. Is it of similar quality?
OK, didn’t know that Hung Fa Wui was being discussed in WCK circles already, presumably prior to HFY WCK going public.
Jin Yong’s (Louis Cha) 2 novels were published in 1955 (B&S) and 1969 (D&C). I think that he regards the Deer and the Cauldron as a superior work, but I’d say that all of his works are of v. high quality. He is very good at working real events into his narrative, but he does stretch timelines and obviously invents links, and so forth - artistic license and all that. So you’re following in good tradition.
CFT - No problem. Leung Ting (in his HK newspaper series), Yip Chun, Mok Poi-On (in New Martial Hero and Western articles with Jane Hallander) and others did a lot of early work presenting different views and stories. Most of it is out there, however, so the chronology isn’t really that hard to follow. Heck, Eddie Chong sifu was even kind enough to contribute pages and pages of Pan sifu’s personal info for Complete Wing Chun so we could help share it (see Acknowledgements, page xi for a complete list of contributors). I daresay, when Chong and Nedderman’s original article first came out, it was dynamite at the time (both in the IKF letters column and online in RMA and the WCML).
And thanks for the opinion on B&S. I’ll definately check it out.
Chee,
Honghuating and Honggun are also mentioned in Origins of the Tiandihui (Stanford University Press, 1994) by Murray, in the chapter on Myth & Legend (though, IMHO, I think it’s hard to classify it as purely that). Honggun is also pretty prominent in Strangers at the Gate (University of California Press, 1966).
And Weng Chun Diem (Always Spring Hall) was in a series by KFO member John D. of Hawaii back in the mid 1990s (96?), Yip Man lineage: http://www.wingchunassoc.com/five_elders.htm
So, I guess a lot of them are fairly common in all sorts of literature.
I think there’s also a play/musical of some kind about Lee Man Mao out there…
All I can say is HOLY COW!!! :eek: For one thing, isn’t it illegal to copy text verbatim from one forum and post it on another forum? The level of vindictiveness on that thread is impressive. Its just amazing that they can preach about “kung fu ettiquette” in one breath, and then be so nasty in the next!
Keith
So, I guess a lot of them are fairly common in all sorts of literature.
Rene,
You are continually clouding the issue for no good resaon. Since reading the statement…
Hung Fa Wui and Hung Gun Wui are not the same.
Hung Fa Wui= Five Elders Hung Gun Wui=Secret Societies. They are two very distinct historical references.
You have been on damage control detail night and day it appears. Because your own misinformation outlets are incomplete your would be supporters like CFT only leave you with more work to do.
The VTM has provided you and all of us with some of the necessary and basic knowledge we need to understand this topic your refusal to acknowledge this only adds to the confusion.
For the record :
Place: Hung Fa Ting (Southern Shaolin Temple)
Hung Fa Wui – Chiu Yuen & Da Jung
Place: Foshan
Hung Fa Wui Kwoon – Cheung Ng
Places: Foshan & Fukien & Canton
Hung Gun Wui – Hung Gun Biu and the Red Boxers
By purposefully mixing up names, timelines and references to each of them you have shown either your incompetence as a researcher or your insincerity as gentleman or both.
Keith,
It’s infringement of copyright, but it seems as common on the internet as ret-con is in WCK history info
Anthony,
I wish you and your team nothing but luck and success in your WCK historical endeavors. Hopefully all your hard work and dedication will one day lead to a wealth of peer-reviewed data and a new era for subject in general.
Rgds,