[QUOTE=MysteriousPower;1052221]I take this as a great compliment. Thanks. You have to admit that my posts reach page 9 million. Whenever David Jameson starts a new thread only he and his mother post on it. No personality. 
Take a look at his weapons post.[/QUOTE]
ahh…so this is just a lead up to your marketing consulting services.
We can piggy-back on your posts, maybe have a banner for our school, get more hits on our websites, links to our pages, etc.
“This post by Mysterious Power is sponsored by Ten Tiggers Kung-Fu Emporium and Kosher Salad Bar”
[QUOTE=MysteriousPower;1052217]There are no applications hidden in forms. This is a fallacy that keeps getting brought up in the tcma.[/QUOTE]
Exactly what expertise do you have, or support, that supports this claim?
I know of lines that obscure silk reeling in sections for exactly the reasons mentioned.
I know of forms with excluded details that are always taught separately to keep outsiders out of the loop should they analyze the form.
Not all styles do this, but it is quite common.
If you established your base of knowledge and qualifications, perhaps it might be learer what you’re trying to say, but it appears you are simply saying things without any knowledge to back them when you say things like that. It doesn’t take knowing too many Chinese sifu to know that you’re wrong.
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;1052228]Movements in the air should be informed by what one has already done against actual partners and opponents.
These movements should come AFTER one has learned the techniques through testing with partners/opponents. The movements should not be predefined, but should be spontaneous based on what one “sees” the partner/opponent doing.[/QUOTE]
well, that didn’t work out for Lesnar last night now did it. 
if he had any kung fu, he’d be totally different.
MP
There are no applications hidden in forms. This is a fallacy that keeps getting brought up in the tcma. Techniques are done spontaneously in specific situations. The way to develop techniques is by developing them against actual moves you cannot avoid or keep getting hit by.
The form “founders” made up forms as away to memorize THEIR techniques. Everyone should develop their own “forms” based on their own techniques.
its saying things like this is the reason no one takes you seriously out here. your comments show complete ignorance of the martial arts chiense or not.
perhoas its time to find a teacher and stop playing on the internet. or perhaps read a book about kung fu so you can at least know what your talkign about
[QUOTE=KC Elbows;1052231]Exactly what expertise do you have, or support, that supports this claim?
I know of lines that obscure silk reeling in sections for exactly the reasons mentioned.
I know of forms with excluded details that are always taught separately to keep outsiders out of the loop should they analyze the form.
Not all styles do this, but it is quite common.
If you established your base of knowledge and qualifications, perhaps it might be learer what you’re trying to say, but it appears you are simply saying things without any knowledge to back them when you say things like that. It doesn’t take knowing too many Chinese sifu to know that you’re wrong.[/QUOTE]
I think what I am saying is quite clear. You just refuse to accept it because I did not present my "Certificate of life long achievement from (Chinese sifu) for doing(choose a style). Your so called qualifications do not make you seem more knowledgeable. A guy like you would not believe me even if I told you the sky was blue.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1052233]well, that didn’t work out for Lesnar last night now did it.
if he had any kung fu, he’d be totally different.[/QUOTE]
No, but it worked for Cain. Brock Lesnar would run through and and all of the old tcma “masters.” There has to be a winner and a loser in the ring.
Originally Posted by Knifefighter
Movements in the air should be informed by what one has already done against actual partners and opponents.
These movements should come AFTER one has learned the techniques through testing with partners/opponents. The movements should not be predefined, but should be spontaneous based on what one “sees” the partner/opponent doing.
LOL this dude is just as ignorant as mysterious power… perhaps they should both go to thier teachers and ask for thier money back. LOL
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1052234]MP
its saying things like this is the reason no one takes you seriously out here. your comments show complete ignorance of the martial arts chiense or not.
perhoas its time to find a teacher and stop playing on the internet. or perhaps read a book about kung fu so you can at least know what your talkign about[/QUOTE]
Um…my ego is not stroked by being taken seriously or not. I have said it before NOT to take me seriously.
Point me to a good kung fu book and I will check it out.
points well taken-I do know of several forms that hide very specific technique in plain sight, so to speak. I am not so sure if that was the original intent, but that is the end result. Also remember that Sifus used to take in disciples and teach in private, not a storefront full of students. If you trust your students, then what are you hiding? Another product of the overselling of TCMA.
I would post more, but I’ve got a school to run.
Functional systems such as BJJ, Wrestling, Muay Thai, Boxing, and Sambo have all figured out that training is much more efficient without forms. That’s why these systems tend to turn out stronger fighters.
Same thing is pretty much true for all human performance activities that require either partners or opponents from baseball to football to soccer to partner dance to shotput to weight lifting.
The only place that “forms” have a place is in solo activities.
[QUOTE=MysteriousPower;1052240]Point me to a good kung fu book and I will check it out.[/QUOTE]
“Book?” dude, find a teacher.
Um…my ego is not stroked by being taken seriously or not. I have said it before NOT to take me seriously.
Point me to a good kung fu book and I will check it out
your right MP my bad, I always think that you are honestly looking for answers to your posts and I try my best to help, then you respond in a silly way I and i think why did i waste my time, but then you make me laugh so i guess its OK.
go by the sword polishers record by Adan Hsu, its a must read
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1052233]well, that didn’t work out for Lesnar last night now did it.
if he had any kung fu, he’d be totally different.[/QUOTE]
Didn’t work because he went up against someone who used the same methodology. Of course he would have crushed Velasquez if Velasquez was a forms fairy.
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1052242]points well taken-I do know of several forms that hide very specific technique in plain sight, so to speak. I am not so sure if that was the original intent, but that is the end result. Also remember that Sifus used to take in disciples and teach in private, not a storefront full of students. If you trust your students, then what are you hiding? Another product of the overselling of TCMA.
I would post more, but I’ve got a school to run.:p[/QUOTE]
I think that certain things were only taught to certain students that the teacher knew were going to be passing the system on.
Beyond those no one really needed to know them or perhaps didn’t deserve to know them?
Hard to tell with old people.
Irrelevant though, because many a great fighter came from systems that had no forms or minimal forms work, which casts a shadow of doubt of the effectiveness of systems that felt they needed to hide something to be effective.
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1052245]your right MP my bad, I always think that you are honestly looking for answers to your posts and I try my best to help, then you respond in a silly way I and i think why did i waste my time, but then you make me laugh so i guess its OK.
go by the sword polishers record by Adan Hsu, its a must read[/QUOTE]
I read that book. It is a good book. He takes apart the internal and external bs
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1052242]points well taken-I do know of several forms that hide very specific technique in plain sight, so to speak. I am not so sure if that was the original intent, but that is the end result. Also remember that Sifus used to take in disciples and teach in private, not a storefront full of students. If you trust your students, then what are you hiding? Another product of the overselling of TCMA.
I would post more, but I’ve got a school to run.:p[/QUOTE]
Pulling “secret/hiddern techniques” out of forms is about as effective as pulling them from ballet dancing.
yes and he does it was well written adn gives a great poitn of view of martila arts… oh and he metiones out of respect my sigung, Wei Xiao Tung of ba bu tang lang
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1052253]yes and he does it was well written adn gives a great poitn of view of martila arts… oh and he metiones out of respect my sigung, Wei Xiao Tung of ba bu tang lang[/QUOTE]
Since I have read similar kung fu books that you have read does that make your opinion of my opinions any better?
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;1052251]Pulling “secret/hiddern techniques” out of forms is about as effective as pulling them from ballet dancing.[/QUOTE]
He has a school to run with tons of people learning forms. He could not possibly reply by today.
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;1052243]Functional systems such as BJJ, Wrestling, Muay Thai, Boxing, and Sambo have all figured out that training is much more efficient without forms. That’s why these systems tend to turn out stronger fighters.
[/QUOTE]
No, they turn out stronger fighters because they train what they fight a good percentage of the time in varied manners that allow for realistic usage, forms only precludes such, but not forms in and of themselves. Doing a form does not preclude someone from being a functional fighter, not training for fighting does.