This has occured to me before but from reading some comment from some grapplers i thought i better refresh your memories. Kung fu was developed as a system for defending against all sorts of different attacks including those of knives and weapons. The style of sparring and fighting therefore needs to account for this and so is slightly more rigid in the forms of attack and defense.
This basically means that if you shoot for somones legs and they have a knife, they’ll stab you. What i mean is that most forms of kung fu developed ways of fighting that elminated these potential risks by not taking risks such as shooting or running in and wildly pounding. This is the most obvious reason why kung fu practioners do not enter sporting compeitions such as ufc and the like. The fact is too, kung fu guys in general aren’t training as sports men.
Don’t forget too that they profess to help with self defense and not to make you the greatest warrior in all situations and competitions.
Modern Kung Fu practicioners in the western world does’nt think like they did in ancient china, and fighting is different nowadays, different weapons in the streets, etc.
Yeah, most grapplers are pretty dumb. Especially the MMA guys. I know that if someone pulled a knife or a shotgun on me, I’d sit back in a cat stance or rhino looks at the moon. :rolleyes:
Standing up and fighting has it place; grappling and ground-fighting has it’s place. If you want to be prepared to handle most situations, you better be proficient in both.
Originally posted by bungle
This has occured to me before but from reading some comment from some grapplers i thought i better refresh your memories.
Man, I love posts that start this way. The implication that we don’t really have a difference of opinions. It’s just that we’ve forgotten (or never knew) something that the current poster understands thoroughly. Presumption: It’s what’s for dinner.
Kung fu was developed as a system for defending against all sorts of different attacks including those of knives and weapons. The style of sparring and fighting therefore needs to account for this and so is slightly more rigid in the forms of attack and defense.
Then kung fu was also developed to address attacks like the shoot for the legs. And yet kung fu fighters still get taken down by these things. Not automatically. But it happens frequently enough. So why should defending against knives and weapons be any different?
This basically means that if you shoot for somones legs and they have a knife, they’ll stab you. What i mean is that most forms of kung fu developed ways of fighting that elminated these potential risks by not taking risks such as shooting or running in and wildly pounding.
So do you think that kung fu’s battlefield origins guarantee your safety (or even survival) in a fight with a knife-wielding assailant?
This is the most obvious reason why kung fu practioners do not enter sporting compeitions such as ufc and the like.
Oft quoted, yes. Obvious, not really. And compelling? Absolutely not.
The fact is too, kung fu guys in general aren’t training as sports men.
Very true.
Don’t forget too that they profess to help with self defense and not to make you the greatest warrior in all situations and competitions.
Can you point to a verifiable track history of success in self defense though? I don’t mean the annals of history either. I mean contemporary accounts of successful self defense. Versus knives? Other weapons?
“Kung fu was developed as a system for defending against all sorts of different attacks including those of knives and weapons. The style of sparring and fighting therefore needs to account for this and so is slightly more rigid in the forms of attack and defense.”
That is true. There seem to be several factors motivating the creation of forms (be they long solo forms, or partnered rhythm forms, or things like push hands or ju-waza).
IMO if you put a knife in the hands of a determined grappler certain standup and mounted positional grappling moves take on a far nastier outlook. Give that grappler some FMA or Military based knife training on top of that and you have a very dangerous animal.
IMO if you put a knife in the hands of a determined (insert martial approach here) certain (insert various martial techniwues here) moves take on a far nastier outlook. Give that martial artist some FMA or Military based knife training on top of that and you have a very dangerous animal.
ok some people are reading stuff into how i phrased my point. I’m not trying to come across as arrogant. I said kung fu helps with self defense. It can help like fitness can help or pumping iron. Modern day methods of fighting are probaly more useful for todays society.
Kung fu was developed a long time ago and things have change; guns! Also, in less lawful times there would be more crime and wider use of various weapons.
I really don’t care whether kung fu helps me with self defense. I’m probaly never gonna be in a fight. I just thought i’d mention that historically the reason kung fu is lacking in the old ground fighting techniques is because weapons were more widely used by both defender and attacker.
Who cares about self defence? I was just making a point about what might of affected the development of kung fu.
Presumption: It’s what’s for dinner…and everyones eating it.
Just to play devils advocate here. Let me first start by stating that I don’t really agree with bungles idea. The current condition of CMA in america is not a barometer to CMA in the entire world. CMA is starting to really suck here thanks to the proliferation of Mckwoons. The good fighting stock is being channeled elsewhere, Its not kung fu’s fault.
This thread shows how things haven’t changed much. This board is still droaning on endlessly with the strikers vs. grapplers mantra. Which is funny to me since the professional sports idealizing this are now very mixed and are not dominated by any one in particular.
To be fair…
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Then kung fu was also developed to address attacks like the shoot for the legs. And yet kung fu fighters still get taken down by these things. Not automatically. But it happens frequently enough. So why should defending against knives and weapons be any different?
[/B]
I hope this is just more than the usual handfull of clips online(of which some are 10 years old). Otherwise please state where all these fights are happpening. As far as getting taken down is concerned, grapplers get taken down 90% of the time. I know its what you want to happen but it is the number. And 50 % of the time(only one wins a match) it leads to a loss. As time goes on, more and more will have better take down or grappling defenses. That is the whole point about keeping styles secret. If the enemy knows what you are going to do, eventually, that element of surprise is lost and that makes the fighter predictable. They’ll catch on eventually, come to think of it they may already have.
So do you think that kung fu’s battlefield origins guarantee your safety (or even survival) in a fight with a knife-wielding assailant?
History doesn’t guarantee anything. This stems into the same old mistaking the person for the style. Just like being a gracie fan doesn’t guarantee one’s survival either. Its kind of a non-issue.
Can you point to a verifiable track history of success in self defense though? I don’t mean the annals of history either. I mean contemporary accounts of successful self defense. Versus knives? Other weapons?
This one is self serving. What is the annals of history? 100 years ago? Last week? And if told of a rescent event will you just accept it or will you try to disprove it to support your arguement? And the same can be asked of the other camp. How many MMA guys have been in a street situtation lately? How would we know? Word of mouth? Does royce have an on staff camera man following him into every disco bathroom? Is every crackhead in town doing (X)MA too? On this subject both camps are completely equal.
Doing Kung-Fu does not necessarily mean getting everything out of it that can be gotten.
I wouldn’t show my Kung-Fu even in a fight, because stereotypically one is not supposed to. But it helps to allow me to fight~ to the level of whomever, in the style of whatever. -ish
No_Knowing every level, No_Knowing each person, and not necessarily knowing every style, my arrogance allows me to have this general concept/belief.
