Ok, we all know about Kung Fu and peaceful temple Monks, but what about the other side of the coin? Say Kung Fu taught by the Tongs, or the Italian Mafia?
How prevelent is that, and what would you do if you ever discovered one of your former teachers is a family member in some sort of major underworld criminal enterprize?
What if you knew it while you were a student?
What if you knew it before you were a student? Would you learn from him because he has real world experiance?
If you want to learn, does it matter where you learn it from?
is it more honourable to learn how to kill from a nun or a drill sargeant, and where would you get the lesson that you knew for sure would work.
let’s not mix peas and radishes here. Killing arts are killing arts. You can dress it up in all the monk stuff you want and try to temper it with a lot of lessons of love and peace, but it is what it is.
You learn to fight why? to not fight? what a monumental waste of time that is. I learn to paint so I can paint and show pictures, I learn to meditate so I can get a calm mind, I learn to play music so I can express on that level and i learn to fight so I can kick ass or at least take an ass kicking if the situation arises.
anything else is in my opinion more or less lying to yourself. If you aren’t prepared to express it, then you simply aren’t prepared to fully be and do it.
it is possible to have more than one facet to your being as well, so, good with the bad, dark with the light etc etc.
For many styles kung fu and organized crime (hak sei woi) have connections. Styles like choy lay fut and hung fut for instance. It all comes down to how you use your martial arts. In many case people involved in organized crime might not be that bad to an everyday person. Their other side of life is more of a business thing. As long as you stay away from organized crime I don’t see a problem but that’s just me.
In a perfect world that may be possible, but most people tend to emulate their teachers on all kinds of levels. If you’re into martial arts for fighting I don’t see any problem there, but if you’re wanting self-development it’d be a major drawback.
The young guys that are drawn to martial arts generally want more power, to be in control and are thus pretty easily influenced. How long before Johnny gets asked to pack heat for his sifu “just to play it safe”?
[QUOTE=Royal Dragon;740828]or the Italian Mafia?[/QUOTE]
The Mafia doing Kung Fu? So that’s what James Caan was doing in the Godfather to his brother in law. No-touch chi strikes!
The alure of fast money, and haveing hot women on both arms is pretty high as well. How long before Sifu offers work running the door at his families strip club in Vegas?
When my Sifu talks about training in the seventies he says a lot of Sifu had serious triad connections, and indeed often students would end up doing security at mahjong clubs and so on. He also sadly told me of one club where students often ended up “owing favours” and finding themselves enmeshed.
Personally I think people from a “negative background” could be great martial artists. I probably wouldn’t want to learn from them because most people like that are retarded d1cks in a way. I like learning from good people (and I’ve been fortunate because for the most part all of my instructors were rather good).
Italian mafia
there is no mafia :rolleyes: there is no Italian mafia;)
its called Kung Fu-gettaboutit…
LOL!!! The Italian Mafia is rather crippled right now, and from what i can see it’s more a loose association of families than the powerhouse they once were, but I would not discount them yet.
LOL @ organized crime syndicates using kung fu to hurt and kill people when they have ready access to weapons… somebody watches too many movies.
[QUOTE=Royal Dragon;740828]
How prevelent is that, and what would you do if you ever discovered one of your former teachers is a family member in some sort of major underworld criminal enterprize?
[/QUOTE]
I’d ask him for a letter of recommendation. How do you get into hte Triads anyways? Do you have to try out, like for HS baseball or something?
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;740908]LOL @ organized crime syndicates using kung fu to hurt and kill people when they have ready access to weapons… somebody watches too many movies.[/QUOTE]
Yeah KF, but you have to remember…you don’t necessarily want to kill the small frys that bring in the dough. Roughing 'em up a bit can come in handy…you know, broken bones and stuff. You wouldn’t use BJJ/MMA, cuz part of the whole Triad/Yakuza mentality is in looking cool:cool: …and what looks cooler than CMA?
[QUOTE=CLFNole;740839]Styles like choy lay fut and hung fut for instance. It all comes down to how you use your martial arts. .[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but they ain’t got nuthin on my Jabba the Fut.
Note: it’s a legit gangsta fu…on Tatooine, at least (note above quote from KF)
No, not too many movies.One of my early Kung fu teachers was the younger brother of a major Chicago crime figure…
Also, many organised crime figures like to beat people first hand. It’s motivational.
Weapons are for disposing of those who refuse to pay, go and become witnesses against them and such things.
There were a lot of brutal beatings in Elmwood park when i was kid. all sorts of violence was employed. Anything from emptyhand brutality, to blowing up resturaunts like Horwaths.
I’m not saying all that was done by Kung fu practioning mafiasos, but it wasn’t at all restricted to just weapons.
organised yes but not necessary crimes.
Chen Village Tai Chi;
there are also other stuffs with weapons etc.
Chen Wang Ting was a retired late Ming general, he summarized all his military stuff to train the local as if soldiers to fight against bandits or fend off invaders,
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eventually, the boxing methods and weapon drills evolved into Chen Tai Chi.
if you trace the histories of styles, they may be traced back to either military or thugs,
in the old time, there is a fine line between good and bad, –
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“legends of the watermargins”. there were a lot of good people being flamed and had to run away, for example Lin Chong was the head instructor of 80,000 imperial guards, due to his beautiful wife was desired by soccer player Gao Qiu’s adopted son. he was flamed into joining the army in the far off border etc.
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:eek:
I’m kind of talking about today, not back in ancient times.
modern times, there will be guns and some kind of weapons involved.
Sharks, with laser head attachments, and all that jazz…
There is no such thing in todays society of the triad’s or tongs that impliment MA aty any level. they are more geared toward drugs, prostitution, importing and exporting and guns.
From my backround living in NY and having orginzed crime all around me and being half sicilian were no such thing as MA in the cosanostra either. Strong armed and threats were all that was needed there was no place for skilled fighters, most of the threats were intimidation.
modern times, there will be guns and some kind of weapons involved.
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No, not really. You’d think, but it seems these guys still do things “Old School” by beeating people bare handed 3 on one.
I was reading an artical online lately where a guy got his neck broke by the bouncers of the mob controlled “Crazy Horse” strip club…no weapons there, just bare handed brutality and 3 on one insurance.
One of the guys in the links I posted above was the floor manager at Crazy horse, and brother to a major Chicago mob boss…infact the entire crazy horse staff and ownership seems to have ties to Chicago’s outfit. Just google the names in the links and a whole bunch of news articals comes up tieing them all together.
From my backround living in NY and having orginzed crime all around me and being half sicilian were no such thing as MA in the cosanostra either. Strong armed and threats were all that was needed there was no place for skilled fighters, most of the threats were intimidation.
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One of the mobsters pictured in the links i posted above is a recognised Master in the Chicago area, and a former teacher of mine. I know of several others involved, or with close family ties that were also into Kung Fu. So it may not be prevelant in NY, but the Chicago outfit defenetly has it’s Kung fu players…and I am talking top level guys here.
I’d bet it’s common in NY too, you just haven’t noticed it.