Originally posted by MutantWarrior
ninja joe rules.
THIS ninja Joe?
http://cell.ncbc.org/immanuel/pages/photo/cell/04272001/images/ninja_joe.jpg
Originally posted by red5angel
[B]
but - and correct me if I’m wrong - but Ross isn’t even teaching his fighters what Chan Tai San taught him?
[/B]
you are WRONG
so consider yourself corrected…
heh, I can do that, and I’m no master.
sure you are sevie, atleast the master of your domain 
yeah, that’s what I was talking about too. It’s easier to believe as his accomplishments are known. sugar ray robinson has had 200 pro fights and has only lost 19. ninja joe has had 200 fights and only lost 17. which is more believable and why?
ah but this is subtly different. See, Sugar Ray Robinson has publicly fought all of his fights. I’m not aware of ninja joe, although he has to have balls of steel to walk around lookig like that and claiming the things he does. My assumption (pay attention here newb) is that he claims all these fights but has no real evidence to back it up?
Some of Chan Tai San’s stuff can probably be confirmed pretty easily, in fact some of the stuff Ross tells us happened in front of people who still live today, but really, how much more valid is this? Can we do the research and uncover, from a legitimate source other then word of mouht, that he did indeed kill some dude in a challenge match while in the military? Essentially, the majority of Chans’ experiences are still hearsay, whether they are true or not.
Originally posted by Mat
Seven, don’t you have the power to hoik Knifefighter’s criticisms from that thread onto this one, and delete them from there?
no, not unless I manually copy them over, then delete the comments from the other thread. I can combine two entire threads together, but not pieces of them.
he also said the young guy died. he never said it was right away for hours alter or something. im sure most of you people think he hit him, and boom he was dead. if he shattered somehting or soemthing ruptered something, he wouldnt be dead right away. im sure CTS could do something like that. for those that dont think 50 year olds cant be fast and powerful in their kung fu have never seen a good martial artist or experienced one. and 99% of thsoe martial artist’s do come form asia, because its a lifestyle over there. do i beluieve CTS is as good as they say, yes. why cause my sigong is a tough old man like CTS was. Is he as tough as CTS i dont know, maybe I haven’t met him and I only hear stories from my sihing and sifu. Probably not though, it sounds like CTS has a lot more experience in things that my sigong doesnt. thats all i am saying on this.
Originally posted by red5angel
Some of Chan Tai San’s stuff can probably be confirmed pretty easily, in fact some of the stuff Ross tells us happened in front of people who still live today, but really, how much more valid is this? Can we do the research and uncover, from a legitimate source other then word of mouht, that he did indeed kill some dude in a challenge match while in the military? Essentially, the majority of Chans’ experiences are still hearsay, whether they are true or not.
Once again, I don’t disagree. But you’re overlooking the fact that we’re talking about human nature here. people aren’t going to try to look into the history of someone they find to be reputable. I can verify the claim that chang tung sheng (another CTS) was undefeated in all of his matches. However, I have seen the quality of the students he’s produced and their students as well, so I don’t care to question it either way.
Originally posted by Newb
THIS ninja Joe?
http://cell.ncbc.org/immanuel/pages/photo/cell/04272001/images/ninja_joe.jpg
That’s the guy!!!
Man, ninjas are totally sweet.
Originally posted by red5angel
and correct me if I’m wrong - but Ross isn’t even teaching his fighters what Chan Tai San taught him?
He’s stated several times that CTS was an advocate of san shou. he’s also stated that the principles of what he teaches came from what he learned from cts.
Originally posted by red5angel
Coach Ross, a respected person on this forum because he teaches fighters, tells a story about his instructor killing a guy with one punch, and no one bats an eye.
He never said one punch.
As long as you don’t make a lot of huge and bizarre claims, or have a credible background then you can tell any story you want and it’s ok?
It’s the “credible background” part that is essential, here. See, if Random Non-Trained Drunk Dude says he just knocked out a guy with one kick to the head, and SevenStar says he just knocked out a guy with one kick to the head, in neither case do we know that the person involved is telling the truth. But the things we /do/ know as facts about SevenStar (he has trained muay thai for years, he is hy00ge, he has good kicks, he has been involved in physical altercations before) make it reasonable that he might have just knocked someone out with one kick to the head, whereas nothing we know about RNTDD makes that reasonable to expect.
While we don’t /know/ that it is true that CTS killed a guy in a challenge match, the things we /do/ know about CTS (and, for that matter, Coach Ross) make it reasonable to expect that that story is probably true. The fact that we give accept Ross’ secondhand account while sneering at that of, say, backbreaker isn’t ironic; it’s completely normal, because Ross has established the facts that cause his secondhand account to have credibility.
He’s stated several times that CTS was an advocate of san shou. he’s also stated that the principles of what he teaches came from what he learned from cts.
principles is one thing…
He never said one punch.
correct, I was going to put “…or something” in there but got lazy.
because Ross has established the facts that cause his secondhand account to have credibility.
I’m not sure I completely agree with that. ross, hasn’t done anything that anyone else hasn’t done. He’s told us some stories. That’s it. He has pointed out that there are some stories in chinese newspapers or other periodicals, but there are lots of stories about kungfu masters in chinese periodicals. I remember reading a pretty thorough article on a particular chinese master that was made fun of pretty extensivley on this forum not too long ago.
Some of the stories of the guys in the past are removed a few times maybe but they are still verbal stories confirmed only by those who either witnessed or talked to someone who witnessed tthese things.
coughasshatterycough
coughasshatterycough
actually asshat, I’m having a discussion. It’s an interesting bit of human nature is all.
I didnt read the whole thread so I dont know if this has been said already. Regardless of your beliefs the younger guy was murdered.
A master knows the results of his techniques, whether it was chi or not, it was a leathal technique, and if your story is accurate, was Premeditated Murder.
murder?!? whoa… now that changes everything, zikes! :eek:
no, wait a minute, it couldnt have been murder… because as red5 pointed out, cts’s escapades were not adequately documented or verified, and therefore ironically fall into the mythological master catagory along with all the other so-called masters, and we all know that these feats are imaginary and therefore impossible. so it couldnt have happened. whew, this acquits cts of any wrong-doing. for a minute there…
some one get “Tao Monkey” a cold cloth and some smelling salts, I think he’s feeling faint…
People really don’t understand what San Da is about, how it transfers from traditional, but really, in all seriousness, get teh DVD we just made, you’ll see quite clearly how what I do now is directly linked to what Chan Tai San taught me…
Originally posted by lkfmdc
some one get “Tao Monkey” a cold cloth and some smelling salts, I think he’s feeling faint…
Or tiger balm…
Originally posted by FngSaiYuk
Or tiger balm…
I wouldn’t volunteer to put my fingers down his throat. He might be trained in bite-U.
People really don’t understand what San Da is about, how it transfers from traditional, but really, in all seriousness, get teh DVD we just made, you’ll see quite clearly how what I do now is directly linked to what Chan Tai San taught me…
That’s true I don’t, I’m not real familiar with it. How much of what you learned from Chan Tai San do you think you are applying to your Sanda training?
Originally posted by red5angel
Have I ever heard of chesty puller?! 4 Years as a marine here!!!
Chesty Puller was just another person, too, but because of word-of-mouth stories similar to the one’s Coach Ross is telling he is affectionately referred to as “the Grand Old Man of the Marine Corps.” This is my point. [B]
As for who cares, or 10 thousand year old culture, I didn’t realize Chan Tai San was that old.
[/B]Since when is one person a whole culture? But to better understand a culture, you need to look at several individuals from that culture. And several from every aspect and era of it. [B]
I was under the impression he was like the rest of us mortals and grew up over the last century?
I never said there was anything wron with respecting him. I’m just pointing out the irony in the entire process. … and no one bats an eye. All he get’s is oooohs and aaaahhhss.
[/B]Some of us take things literally and personally. Others of use sit back and ejoy the stories for what they are. Stories.[B]
I’m trying to underline a common issue in the martial arts, and especially on this forum. As long as you don’t make a lot of huge and bizarre claims, or have a credible background then you can tell any story you want and it’s ok? [/B]
Yep. This is assuming you are a competent, intelligent person and know that this is a story, not intended to get you to go out and try this at home. These happened in a different time and form many stories a different place. The simple fact that what was likely considered exceptable then is now called premeditated murder illistrates the very kind of differences I find fascinating about these stories.
Dear all,
Many traditional martial arts teachers before 1960 gained fame by fighting people for real on the streets or inside their own schools. They sometimes had to fight with weapons - this meant die or injured. They did not have newspapers & televison coverage.
In the traditional martail arts schools before 1960s, every teachers who opened their own schools were expected able to use their skills in a fight.
However, some schools were run by conmans with little skills, but had conection with the gangsters. Or they collected protection business from the resturants, brothels & other business. This is a dark side of martail arts people did not want to talk about it.
When you opened up a school you were expected people to challenge you to a fight. If you lost the fight you were expected to close your school, so your students would leave you and found a better teacher. Most sifu took the fights very seriously as their income depended on them winning the fight. Some of them had part of their lambs chopped off during the fight.
Whether you believed Sifu Ross’ stories about his sifu is up to you.
However, I can tell you that a very famous Hung kuen master , Lam Sai Wing before 1900 (?) and four of his students fought over 200 people inside a cinema. All four of his students were injuried in the fight, expcet him. Master Lam had to ecapse to Hong Kong that night in order to avoid the police arresting him. The owner of the cinema had connection with the government. 80 people were injuried in the fight and many had to taken to a hosiptial. The cinema owner put up a bounty on master Lam. The whole event was reported by a newspaper in China.
Hitman