Chan Tai San

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
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Since there is so much discussion surrounding him on this forum I think it’s time that one of his students dedicates a thread to verification of his accomplishments and credentials (through links possibly) for the rest of us who didn’t know him. If it is at all possible.

For example, his professional fighting experience (in the military), the subway mugging (from CTS stories thread), and any other related credentials verifying his status in the eyes of his students that are on this site.

I’m not demanding mind you. Its just that with so many threads involving his students and his name, it would be nice to have that sort of info on him. Right now it seems were “taking your word on it,” or trusting that you have good sources.

You say he fought western boxers. We don’t know which “western boxers” he fought or how good they were. What is a western boxer anyway? Do you mean a non-chinese pro-boxer, or a chinese who trained in western boxing? It’s not clear.

We don’t know relevant details of the mugging incident that D. Ross recounted (if there is a newspaper clipping it would be nice to see).

Anyway, by now you know what I mean. I realise that some events may not be verifiable. I figured it wouldn’t hurt to request it anyway. I’m sure it would help everyone.

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By the way, don’t go gettin mad at me for posting this, I’m not doubting anyone or anything.

It’s just that there’s enough un-verifiable greatness in the TCMA community surrounding masters.

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Chan tai san

I’m not sure why you need such evidence. There are several people on this web site that can verify most of this stuff. If your asking a bunch of Sifu’s on a forum to spend their time sending you evidence forget about it who are you! Give me a break just go to China town Sanfransisco or New York CT. There are also a slew of Sifu’s that can tell you stories about him. CTS was a very famous man in his hay day. Then again look at his students accomplisment and impressive reputations in tournaments. Anyway I don’t suppose you go to any of these competitions. If you did you might ask someone hey do you know something about CTS.

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If i can ask anthony a question…

Chan Tai San is no longer with us, so it would be unfair as well as disrespectful to question the authenticity of a respected sifu such as him. If you wanted to see if Chan Tai San was any good of a teacher, I would suggest that you take a look at the quality of his students.

The quality of their gung fu will no doubt reflect Chan Tai San’s teachings, whether they be great, mediocre-sorry misspelling-or below average. Another way to verify is to contact these well known sifu’s in the united states such as tat mau wong, y.c. wong, the white crane school, etc etc. and then by anyone else who truly knew him.

No student wants to stand there listening to someone downgrade, question or even disrespect his/or her sifu. If you were truly faithful to your sifu, then it would show in every one of your actions, from fiercely protecting him or his honor to accepting an order to do someone harm. As a student it is not our place to ever question that.

I will refer to an incident but the names will be changed to protect the innocent. :smiley:

One day my sifu called me and instantly i could hear his voice shaking. I asked what wrong, and he basically told me that the guy behind the counter of a certain estabishment totally and completely without reason disrespected my sifu.

He never asked me to, but without question i asked where this was, what he looked like and when will he be there. So i went to this establishment acting like a nice little square ass penny loafer wearing collar up on his IZOD short sleeve shirt having white guy and asked for the largest hottest cup of coffee i could get.

well, i let your imaginations run on that one, but needless to say i took care of business and restored my sifu’s honor just as a loyal student should. And to be completely and totally and blatantly honest, anyone who wouldn’t put their lives on the line for their sifu is weak in my book. as students we have obligations, written or unwritten.

If your sifu is out of toilet paper it is your job to go out and get it. but thats only if your truly are loyal to your sifu, and those that are know exactly what im talking about.

Peace.

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Green Cloud, from your tone, you sound a little annoyed…I suggest you calm down and not misinterpret my post because you have no reason to be annoyed (why is it such a crime to be inquisitive? or why is it considered disrespectful?). Most of your questions for me are already answered in my first post.

I never asked anyone to send me anything! I suggested that it would be beneficial for everyone on this forum who doesn’t know him.

“There are several people on this web site that can verify most of this stuff.”

Cool…that’s what I asked for.

"who are you! "

Who do I need to be ??? I guess I’m just an interested person (is that a crime?)

“Give me a break just go to China town Sanfransisco or New York CT. There are also a slew of Sifu’s that can tell you stories about him.”

I’m already getting stories here and I’m not about to go travelling around the country (that’s just ridiculous…now you give me a break).

“Then again look at his students accomplisment and impressive reputations in tournaments.”

Where and how?

Let me repeat myself. I’m only asking because there’s so much being discussed about him on this forum. I didn’t think it would be a big deal since some of his students already spend so much time on this forum talking about him. I figured (if anything) they would be happy to promote his accomplishments. Although I did anticipate that you guys might get defensive.

“Chan Tai San is no longer with us, so it would be unfair as well as disrespectful to question the authenticity of a respected sifu such as him.”- hskwarrior

I disagree because I’m not trying to put him down as a person or tarnish his memory. If I questioned the accomplishments of Alexander The Great or Ghengis Khan would I be guilty of the same crime of being disrespectful? I tried to word my first post so it wouldn’t seem disrespectful. David Ross has commented in other posts that some of his accomplishments are easily verified. I thought he could point us in the right direction with links, etc. It’s not as if I could just go down to Barnes-and-Noble and buy a biography of CTS. If it turns out to be a problem for any of CTS’s students…fine, then it ends here. Our lives will go on.

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Read the long CTS thread again…

David Ross has dealt with the problem of verifying CTS stories there, and given evidence of Chinese newspapers there already.

Some things are not verifiable by modern historians standards, and some things which are relatively acceptible to modern historians are not adequately explained for say, scientists or investigative reporters. So what? Does that mean they didn’t happen?

I’m not coming at this from some naive ass’s perspective, I’m as skeptical as the next person, but I love the way since everyone’s an internet investigator these days, everybody wants the proof without having to do the legwork. Guess what? Investigation of these kind of things to any reliable standard takes time and money: and while the burden of proof should lie with the claimant in this case Ross aof about some things and where you can go to get proof about others.

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  1. Chan Tai San was not Rorion Gracie, he didn’t walk around with a video camera taping every fight he ever had. If you can’t accept that, it’s on you

  2. Chan Tai San took out the guys on 42nd street in 1982. It was in the Daily News and Newsweek, maybe the post also… look it up

  3. Can you read Chinese? Great, go get the Toi San District, Canton (Guangdong province) annual almanac for 1950 and you’ll see CTS took third in the free sparring competition that year. Behind Lei Fei San and the Hsing Yi guy

  4. Are you near ANY of the following sifu? Frank Yee, YC Wong, Tai Yim, Chan Poi, Wai Hong, Tat Mau Wong, Ming Lum, Jack Hoey, uh, list goes on and and on

ASK THEM about Chan Tai San

  1. The subway thing when he was living with Steve Ventura, sorry, didn’t make the papers, neither did about 10,000 other events in his life… the world exists without internet links…

  2. Do you read Chinese? Mike Parrella could send you to about 45 links on the internet, in Chinese…

Can’t help it if you can’t read Chinese, can I?

  1. What is a western boxer? It’s a guy who does western boxing as opposed to Chinese Boxing/kung fu…

Did I say he challenged Mike Tyson for the championship of the world? No. I said he fought boxers, like he fought a million guys over his life

  1. Do you live in NY? Do you speak Mandarin? Go to the local KMT lodge here in NYC and ask them why they hosted a banquet in CTS’s honor in the 90’s

  2. Go to Toi San city and ask around. You’ll hear plenty of stories

Or, you could realize that just because YOU don’t know who he is doesn’t mean jack…

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Dave,

the name Jack Hoey, is he from San Francisco? if it is i have a picture of him and lau bun posing together. if it is we know him as jack Huey.

Dave, if you wanted me to get some statements from Y.C. Wong, Tat Mau, Ming Lum, Jack Huey, and even the white crane sifu (i just don’t like to throw his name around). But i can go to them, ask them about Chan Tai San and report my findings back here on this forum. If if comes from me it --since i am an outsider in the knowledge of knowing him personally (cts) i would unbiasedly report whatever was told to me. good or bad.

what do you think?

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It is probably the same Jack, he’s an Ng Yim Ming (Harry) student…

YC Wong, Ming Lum, Leung brothers, all know who Chan Tai San was and can tell you good things… Tat Mau event learned stuff from CTS!

Frank, if you want to ask, I obviously got no problem with that.

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This is Jack Hoey, with sifu and Tony Galvin
http://lionsroar.name/david_28.jpg

This is sifu with Chan Hak Fu
http://lionsroar.name/david_23.jpg

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I have to dig up the pic, but when we went to SF the first time, we went into Brendan Lai’s store. HE wasn’t there, no big deal, his wife was so we just wanted to buy some weapons. Well, sifu walks in, he had been next door buying some coffee…

As G’d is my witness, Sifu Lai’s wife goes “oh my, Chan Tai San!”, she calls up Sifu Lai at home and tells him Sifu Chan is there. Sifu Lai leaves his house and comes in to give us a private tour of the store.

He then asks sifu if he can take a picture with him. He puts sifu in a chair and stands behind him to take the picture. If you are really in TCMA, you know what that means…

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http://lionsroar.name/david_34.jpg

This is a picture of Chan Tai San breaking wires at a demo in Canton City in the mid 80’s… it was his fabled “return tour”… He had been in Canada teaching at the Hong Luk club in Toronto for several years and agreed to take them back to Canton and be their guide. When they arrived, people were so excited to see Chan Tai San back in Guangdong that they asked him to do three special demonstrations. All sold out…

Anyone know the Hong Luk people up in Toronto?

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http://lionsroar.name/david_1.jpg
This is Sifu Chan, me, gus, Mike with Leung Kwan, his students, Ming Lum

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if it will shut the people up about questioning CTS’s authenticity i will gladly put up what our city’s masters remember about your sifu.

it is for you guys and chan tai san that i would do this, in one way to honor him since i never got to know him.

i don’t think the people on this forum wants that, but i think i will do it anyway. hell it will give me something to do. Im going to chinatown this morning anyway, because my girl and i like going to the porkchop house (new lun ting) then the little mall on grant (great star?:confused: ) anyways they have awesome deals on vcd’s and dvds.

heading out to teach a class, get back at ya later.

peace.

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Proper decorum

I’m sorry that my annoyance bothers you, but I forget that some people on this forum may not have been raised following proper etiquette in the Chinese martial arts. Back in the day information like these stories that are told on line were not available to us. Alot has changed in the past 30 years. When we all younger, me and my training brothers were very eager to hear any stories about great masters. I definitaly never questioned a respected sifu when he shared some interesting stories about his Master. I definately never demanded to see any proof that would be disrespectful. Not to say that I didn’t do my own research, I simply did it in a way that wasn’t rood. I just simply confirmed my stories by asking around. As far as calming down I dont know what you meant by that, I wasn’t angry when I replied to yor post. I just wanted to know who you are to ask of such things in such a demanding manner. You catch more bees with honey. The point I’m making is that if you dont ask me in a nice way why should share anything with you. I’ts no skin off my teeth if you dont want to believe respected masters stories. Most of the stories that I herd about Chan tai san I herd from total strangers that had nothing to gain by telling these stories. I never asked for proof. Over a period of time I herd the same stories over and over again from sifu’s and laymen. If have a chance go to N.Y. China town and ask any waiter waitress or shop story hey can you tell me a story about the great Chan Tai san? Make sure you have a translator , some time, and don’t forget the popcorn. I usually take my students to china town and it’s a treat for them because they get to eat Dim sum and hear great tales about their Si Gung. I remember when we went to san fran for the first time. As we walked the streets of china town people were coming up to CTS and were lining up just to shake his hand. I remember lookin at dave and saying that’s pretty weird everyone knows him what’s he the former mayor os san fran or something. Then it hit me that my Sifu was not just the average bear. As we made our way to go visit Sifu Brendan lai’s Martial art supply one of the largest martial art supplie stores at the time. Brendan li got rest his soul, he was agreat master in his own right, he was amazed that Cts was in he store. he aproached us and asked us for an intoduction. He went on to explain that the reason he was so excited was that he had no Idea that sifu Chan was for real. He continued to explain to us that according to the stories he herd about CTS he might of well have been a super hero. According to Sifu Brendan Lai he was sure that sifu was just a legend. The storie once again spilled out of Sifu Lai. I’m trying to make this short but no CTS storie is short. After some conversation Sifu Lai asked Cts to head up his kung fu org. ran up a hill in his three peace suit to get Cts some water and let us take as many weapons from his store as we can carry for free. It wasnt till that san fran trip that I raelized my Sifu was a diamond in the roughf. As far as getting proof about these stories I can’t they are just stories told by many. In the comming future me and my training brothers will try to compile more info about him. Much of that stuff is on video wich is hard to share on line. But ask nicely and say please with sugar on top and maybee you might see something cool. Untill then I guess youre just going to have to listen to these threads. Do you know how small the Chines martial arts comunity is??? if you make something up some one will call you on it so believe you me this stuff is true. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

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Here are two more pictures

(edit)

First one is taken in YC Wong’s school, bonus points if you can name some of those in that crowd

Then there is me, Sifu, Gus with Tat Mau Wong… if you are from SF, you must know where this is :slight_smile:

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I told this story in the CTS stories thread

We were in SF and Sifu was talking to this female student of Tai Yim’s… we invited her out to have tea the next morning… then sifu mentions it to Tai Yim, ultimately, many of the masters in attendance ended up coming to tea… see how many you recognize

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If you are in SF… you know who this is…

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Better quality pic , posted this before , we are in white crane school, CHINESE ONLY, with Sifu Chan and the Leung brothers

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Since I am home with my photo album and scanner now…

This is where Steve Ventura and I trained, in the old old days…