The Truth About Chan Tai Sam

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
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Green Cloud as well as other members of this forum are students of Chan Tai Sam of the lama pai organization have been spreading many false rumors about Wai Hong and the Fu Jow Pai. These individuals act like they are the only true martial artists and Chan Tai Sam is the only true master. I have a few statements for these individuals.

  1. We knew and saw Chan Tai SHAMS kung fu, he was a fat stupid man with no skill and no accomplishments as a competitor or Sifu.

  2. This is obvious by his students who seem to disrespect all other Sifu,

  3. Who did chan tai sham defeat, not heresay but truth, who are the great champions in America or the orient that he defeated or his students.

  4. When did he first start teaching here? Did not the other sifu build the
    great reputation that kung fu has in the U.S.? Then why have his bad mannered students disrespected the many other Sifu who came before him? He is 50 years late in teaching here.

  5. Chan Tai Sham visited Fu Jow Pai and disrespectfully tried to upstage a junior student at the kwoon, who promptly put Chain tai Sham on his back
    in 4 seconds. The sham man left quickly embarrased, this was witnessed by many of the chinatown Sifu who quickly made him a laughing stock; they are still laughing at him

  6. The Shamites are attacking Fu Jow Pai because we have been at the forefront of the kung fu renaissance, and they are jealous and envious of our accomplishments…thiers pale in comparison.

Mark Chang
Dongzhimen, Beijing

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:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

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Hi KKM, and welcome to the forum.

Now go and stand on the naughty step.

This should be a fun thread… hope the CTS’s get to it before it’s locked!

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screams “NYC TONG WAAAAARR!!!” and hits the deck…

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Ok then, Not sure if this is a joke or not since every statement on this thread is an absolute fabrication, but if anyone in the Fu Jow Pai org has a problem, you know where to reach me by phone or in person.

I’m not sure where this is coming from, but if anyone wants a problem over this, you got it. If anyone wants a piece of me, well I’ll be at wongs '06 this sunday in Washington DC.

You want to make a Point!! Show up there and we could settle this in person. Other wise go blow your self.

greencloud.net

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[QUOTE=Shaolin Thunder;699534]Green Cloud as well as other members of this forum are students of Chan Tai Sam of the lama pai organization have been spreading many false rumors about Wai Hong and the Fu Jow Pai. These individuals act like they are the only true martial artists and Chan Tai Sam is the only true master. I have a few statements for these individuals.

[/QUOTE]

Shaolin Thunder,

Don’t group all of CTS’s disciples in one lump. I personally, have or had nothing bad to say about Ng Wai-Hung or the FJP organization. As a matter of fact, I cautioned others about spreading gossip about him/them when negative comments were posted over the last few weeks.

I can speak for my late teacher in saying that he never had bad things to say about Ng Wai-Hung; he said he was a good fighter and his KF was very good. He also said he was a good friend to him and NWH had helped him very much when he first came here to the US in the early 80’s.

Again, don’t take certain people’s comments as a representation of ALL of CTS’s people.

Please direct your comments at the individuals whom have offended you, directly. I have nothing to do with this situation.

That being said,

First of all, get his name right. For someone who is so knowledgable about the ‘facts’, you don’t even know his name.

Secondly, since I am not or have not dissrespected Ng Wai-Hung or the Fu Jow Pai organization, I’ll deal with your posts in this way;

If CTS’s Kung-Fu was so bad, why did MANY (I and will not mentioned names of specific Sifu, however at least THREE OF THEM THAT I KNOW OF ARE/WERE HIGH LEVEL FU JOW PAI INSTRUCTORS) of Chinatown’s Sifu learn from him (I can name at least three other big names of Chinatown Sifu) and have him teach thier students? And don’t tell me that they did it so they can give him some face…

If you want the name of the three FJP instructors who trained with him (I personally watched him teach two of the on several occasions), you may Private message me or email me. I have no interest in disscrediting people or revealing info publically.

NO one is jealous of anyone. The Fu Jow Pai org. was one of the forerunners of Kung-Fu in the 70’s in NYC. They helped put KF on the map here. I think any intelligent individual knows that and appreciates them for it. :slight_smile:

The FJP org. has had a lot of private business aired out in public over the years. Chinese people like to gossip, who’d a thunk it? We’ve all read about Paul Koh mess, the Tak Wah expulsion, gangster accusations, etc. This is info that YOUR people have leaked out. Don’t blame all the forum-goers for that stuff.

And, I have only talked about (the CTS teaching FJP instructors) from what I have personally seen. I have been there when he taught these people, there is no heresay involved.

As far as his students being dissrespectful to other Sifu, I guess that is your point of view. If any of his students were dissrespectful, it is not because Chan Tai-San taught them to be. He always made it a point to say good things about other Sifu, even when it was clear to his students that the individuals were not so worthy of his compliments.

Bottom line is, if you dont’ like what someone said/says, take it up with the individual who said it. No sense trying to discredit a dead man’s memory over some internet posts. I’m sure you and whowever you feel insulted NWH and the FJP org. can work out your difficulties in person or by phone.

Additionally, “who are you?” You have one post and you say you are from Beijing?

My Chinese friend, it’s easy to talk smack from 8000 miles away. :slight_smile:

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Truly Pathetic

[QUOTE=Shaolin Thunder;699534]Green Cloud as well as other members of this forum are students of Chan Tai Sam of the lama pai organization have been spreading many false rumors about Wai Hong and the Fu Jow Pai. These individuals act like they are the only true martial artists and Chan Tai Sam is the only true master. I have a few statements for these individuals.

  1. We knew and saw Chan Tai SHAMS kung fu, he was a fat stupid man with no skill and no accomplishments as a competitor or Sifu.

  2. This is obvious by his students who seem to disrespect all other Sifu,

  3. Who did chan tai sham defeat, not heresay but truth, who are the great champions in America or the orient that he defeated or his students.

  4. When did he first start teaching here? Did not the other sifu build the
    great reputation that kung fu has in the U.S.? Then why have his bad mannered students disrespected the many other Sifu who came before him? He is 50 years late in teaching here.

  5. Chan Tai Sham visited Fu Jow Pai and disrespectfully tried to upstage a junior student at the kwoon, who promptly put Chain tai Sham on his back
    in 4 seconds. The sham man left quickly embarrased, this was witnessed by many of the chinatown Sifu who quickly made him a laughing stock; they are still laughing at him

  6. The Shamites are attacking Fu Jow Pai because we have been at the forefront of the kung fu renaissance, and they are jealous and envious of our accomplishments…thiers pale in comparison.

Mark Chang
Dongzhimen, Beijing[/QUOTE]

Wow apparently the pot can call the kettle black.

Mark, you probably should try practicing what you preach. You speak of disrespect and yet you insult the dead. Very couragous and a true demonstration of your rightousness. It’s not my place to address your rants, but your decorum or lack there of is truly unispiring. If this is an example of your great accomplishments then enough said.

PS - you sign Bejing and speak of teaching “here” referencing the states - are you confused?

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I can’t speak about anyone else in the CTS organization,but This guy is a fool to even want to go there on a publick forum. To make fun of a dead man and make up stuff like this takes a real coward, not to mention that this guy doesn’t even have any contact info so I can tell him where to go.

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[QUOTE=Shaolin Thunder;699534]Green Cloud as well as other members of this forum are students of Chan Tai Sam of the lama pai organization have been spreading many false rumors about Wai Hong and the Fu Jow Pai.[/QUOTE]

I am not aware of any such statements on the forum - they may exist, I just don’t know about them personally, so I can’t speak to those specifically…

[QUOTE=Shaolin Thunder;699534]These individuals act like they are the only true martial artists and Chan Tai Sam is the only true master. I have a few statements for these individuals.[/QUOTE]

I will be the first to say that he was not the only “true” master - but he was certainly one of the greats; proof? well, when the Chinese government chose to produce a video about some of the best martial artists alive at the time, he was on it (along with many others; and I still can’t remember the name of the tape…guys?)

[QUOTE=Shaolin Thunder;699534]1. We knew and saw Chan Tai SHAMS kung fu, he was a fat stupid man with no skill and no accomplishments as a competitor or Sifu.[/QUOTE]

well, then when he performed at the many national CMA tournaments in the masterss shows, obviously all the applause must have been because people felt sorry for him…as for fat, sorry, not really - he had a protruding abdomen, yes; ever felt it? it was like a basket ball - firm and “bouncy”, not flabby; as for stupid: God, where to begin? ok, if you manage to survive what he did, incoluding war, political upheaval, poverty, relocation to at least 3 foreign countries where he didn’t speak the native language and do pretty well for himself - yeah, that’s stupid…

[QUOTE=Shaolin Thunder;699534]2. This is obvious by his students who seem to disrespect all other Sifu,[/QUOTE]

ALL other? that’s pretty generalized…

[QUOTE=Shaolin Thunder;699534]3. Who did chan tai sham defeat, not heresay but truth, who are the great champions in America or the orient that he defeated or his students.[/QUOTE]

what do you mean by truth? video tape? eyewitness accounts? some of us witnessed directly, or were told by people who witnessed first hand what they saw him do; anyway, I’d ask you the same question: who did your teacher defeat that is verifiable? as for students, well, I personally placed first in sparring at the last tournament I attended as his student (NACMAF, 1993) - that was men’s advanced division - ok, it wasn’t a “great champion” who I defeated - just Doc Fai Wong’s son, so he probably had some skill…

[QUOTE=Shaolin Thunder;699534]4. When did he first start teaching here?[/QUOTE]

somewhere in the mid to late 1980’s; so what?

[QUOTE=Shaolin Thunder;699534]Did not the other sifu build the great reputation that kung fu has in the U.S.?[/QUOTE]

which sifu in particular? the ones teaching in their rat-hole back street schools? the ones who were associated with gangster organizations? kung fu has never had a particularly stellar rep in the US…

[QUOTE=Shaolin Thunder;699534] Then why have his bad mannered students disrespected the many other Sifu who came before him? He is 50 years late in teaching here.[/QUOTE]

50 years late - what does that mean? he came when he came; in fact, when he came, a lot of students who had been studying with other “great” sifu came and studied with him

[QUOTE=Shaolin Thunder;699534]5. Chan Tai Sham visited Fu Jow Pai and disrespectfully tried to upstage a junior student at the kwoon, who promptly put Chain tai Sham on his back
in 4 seconds. The sham man left quickly embarrased, this was witnessed by many of the chinatown Sifu who quickly made him a laughing stock; they are still laughing at him[/QUOTE]

riiiight; and you were there for this “story” ? come on now, “truth, not hearsay” as you required above…

[QUOTE=Shaolin Thunder;699534]6. The Shamites are attacking Fu Jow Pai because we have been at the forefront of the kung fu renaissance, and they are jealous and envious of our accomplishments…thiers pale in comparison.[/QUOTE]

as for KF renaiissance, which one, exactly, is Fu Jow Pai at the head of? as for jealous, if you define it as “we couldn’t give a collective crap about what FJP is doing these days”, then yes, I guess that would be about right…

[QUOTE=Shaolin Thunder;699534]Mark Chang Dongzhimen, Beijing[/QUOTE]

Beijing? isn’t Fu Jow Pai based in NYC? what connection do you have with them?

certainly, CTS was far from perfect - as we freely have stated on the CTS thread - he was at times difficult, uncompromising, irrational, unpredictable, etc. -(we like to call it “being human”); considering what he went through in his life, no surprise; toerh times, he was the exact opposite - there were a lot of positives; but the bottom line, WE were the ones who dealt with him on a daily basis, we were the ones who took care of him - not you; so, you realy are in no position to say anything about him at all

BTW, I haven’t studied with CTS since 1993; I left him to pursue other things; I don’t teach his style, my livelyhood has nothing to do with him or his teachings; I have no investment, personal or otherwise in what people say or think about him;

Mark, I have never said a thing about FJP or your teachers - personally, I don’t give a crap about any of them; if you want to weigh invective at any of the posters on this board who you think have slandered you/your teacher/your lineage, go ahead, they are big boys, they can take care of themselves; but your attacks on CTS directly are totally innapropriate, especially the whole “having no skill part”; ok, then, if he was so unskilled, he obviously had nothing to teach that was worthwhile; so, if you travel to NY at all (you must, since you are so intimately tied to FJP), please let me know the next time you are in town: we can meet for “tea”, and we can have a “conversation” and I can “explain” to you how useless Chan Tai San’s kung fu is - specifically, I will gladly “discuss” full-contact staff techniques (I’ll bring two with me, just in case yours doesn’t clear custums…)

have a nice day, jerk

10

Well, the obvious observation is, who is this troll? “Mark Chang”? Never heard of you… and we were in Chinatown, in Wai Hong’s federation for YEARS… and you say you’re in Beijing? Fu Jow Pai in Beijing? Or just conveinant that you aren’t in NYC right now :rolleyes:

Regardless, EVERYTHING on this thread is total crap…

  1. The Chinese government called Chan Tai San a living national treasure and put him in a movie (video of which was sold in Chinatown for years). Chan Tai San was coach of the Guangdong province martial arts team. Chan Tai San was a member of the national demonstration team. Oh, and two time all military sparring champion. Sure, no accomplishments :rolleyes:

  2. Who did Chan Tai San defeat? Well, if you’re in Beijing, get on a train and go to Guangzhou, and ask around. You pretty much can’t go anywhere in Guangdong without hearing stories about Chan Tai San beating someone in a fight.

  3. I know you’re working with nothing here and trying to make stuff up, but at least try and come up with a story someone might believe.

No one put Chan Tai San “on his back” LMFAO, especially not in 4 seconds. Sifu laughing at him? Maybe nervous laughter, hoping he wouldn’t kill them. A certain Bak Mei sifu talked some crap about sifu once. He called him up and asked him if he should come down to his school some time? That sifu the next day told all his students never to talk badly about CTS…

Again, try and come up with a story someone might believe…

  1. Gus Kapros may have dug up some old Chinatown gossip, but you’re responding like a 12 year old. And sorry to tell you, most of the gossip is true. as for FJP’s great accomplishments? Really, what are they? They were a big school in the 70’s. Now what? Most of the key figures have left to do their own thing. The Canal street school is closed. Wai Hung is semi retired I guess… but again, it’s pretty simple

[SIZE=“4”]GROW THE F UP[/SIZE]

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[QUOTE=cjurakpt;699572]

as for jealous, if you define it as “we couldn’t give a collective crap about what FJP is doing these days”, then yes, I guess that would be about right…

[/QUOTE]

Yup, that would pretty much sum up my feeling…

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You know, it’s funny.

I have heard all kinds of things about my late-Sifu. I have heard people say he was stubborn, pig-headed, simple-minded, politically incorrect, obtuse, disrespectful, disagreeable, rude, foul-mouthed and a county bumkin with no regard for others feelings.

I would have to say that there is truth in everyone of these statements. But I have NEVER heard anyone say anything negative about his skills as a fighter, EVER. There wasn’t a Sifu in NYC Chinatown that has ever or could ever have walked a mile in his shoes.

I’ve been to China. I’ve been to Toi-San where his is from. I have spoke to dozens of people who have seen him fight. I have spoke with people who have seen him kill. Remember, this man fought in WWII and fought during the cultural revolution: these guys didn’t f*ck around.

He may not have been the best human being in the world, but he could kick some ass. As a matter of fact is was CTS, not Chuck Norris who only had two speeds; Walk and Kill!

13

Holy Crap!

At least 4 CTSers are on the forum at the same time, going to town on our enigmatic friend from Beijing! Hip Hip Horay!

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Don’t sweat it Mike, this guy is just a troll…

No accomplishments? Ninja please :smiley:

As Chris said, he beat Doc Fai Wong’s son in sparring. He forgot to mention he also beat Jason Wong in weapons sparring… yeah, that division also :wink:

I took fourth in the nation in advanced souther long/short division at NACMAF behind Hung Stewart, Jason Wong and Daniel Tamazaki (Tat Mau’s top student at the time)… and I’m not really known for my forms. I must have learned something

I seem to remember every year we went to NACMAF we won piles of trophies, that fat old man knew something. The first year I remember we won equal trophies in weapons, forms and sparring… kind of well rounded :stuck_out_tongue:

Picture of Sifu Chan with his students and a pile of trophies
http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/kingofsanda/tournament.jpg

Me, I’ve never taken CTS techniques and produced fighters, I mean other than those 3 world champions, 19 national champions, and that K-1 Max contract… nope, no fighting going on over here :stuck_out_tongue:

Oh, and Fu Jow Pai so disresecpted Sifu Chan that they actually PAID the man to teach them… Tak Wah, Kwan Shih Yu, Paul Vizzio, etc all studied with CTS at some point

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I still think all tournaments should have a grudge match division for school and personal challenges.

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[QUOTE=Yao Sing;699580]I still think all tournaments should have a grudge match division for school and personal challenges.[/QUOTE]

Oh please :rolleyes: Do you really think “Mark” would want to fight a CTS lineage person? Students of mine are active in Muay Thai, San Da and Mixed Martial Arts, and “Mark” is doing what?

But I guess we should let “Mark” in on some good news! Mike and I should be in Beijing at some point in near future, yes Mike? Maybe he’d like to cross hands with old guys, I’m trying to keep up the old, fat and stupid tradition in honor of my sifu :smiley:

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The Cat is out of the Bag! :eek: :smiley: :slight_smile: :stuck_out_tongue: :wink:

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[QUOTE=Lama Pai Sifu;699582]The Cat is out of the Bag! :eek: :smiley: :slight_smile: :stuck_out_tongue: ;)[/QUOTE]

which cat, what bag?

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[QUOTE=cjurakpt;699607]which cat, what bag?[/QUOTE]

As soon as we saw this post, Mike and I immediately bought air line tickets to Beijing. We are going to challenge Mark under old Shaolin rules, there are 72 tactics that are legal and 36 tactics that are illegal. Tonight we go to the fortune teller to pick the correct astrological date for the first challenge, in a series of 108.

:wink:

Actually, Mike and I are probably gonna be in Beijing for some other reason and I think probably Mark isn’t in Beijing anyway :smiley:

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[QUOTE=lkfmdc;699608]Actually, Mike and I are probably gonna be in Beijing for some other reason and I think probably Mark isn’t in Beijing anyway :D[/QUOTE]

actually, I am Mark, cleverly disguisehed and this whole thing was a ruse just to get you guys to waster your money on plane fair to Beijing! Ha HAAA!:cool:

so, seriously, what’s the occasion for you guys going?