I’ve posted a video of one of the last public Demo’s of Master Chan Tai Shan demonstrating hard chi gung at the 1993 Tat Wong Kung Fu Championships.
I’m going back through 20 years of Beta, VHS & Mini DV finding some amazing stuff.
Peace
Let me first start out by saying that I am in no way doubting the skills of master Chan nor am I discounting or taking away any of his skill…
BUT wasnt it David Ross who told others on this board including me said that putting rebar against your throat was a ridiculous palour trick and was joke when someone does it? and you needed an assisting partner to make it look like you were really bending it? and this takes no MA training to perform?
I’ve watched my Martial Brother Don Hamby bend a 1.5 inch rebar against his throat and it didn’t seem much the parlor trick to me. All skepticism aside this gentleman was a great Master of Martial Art. He has passed from this earth and deserves our respect.
Peace
[QUOTE=Lokhopkuen;911499]I’ve watched my Martial Brother Don Hamby bend a 1.5 inch rebar against his throat and it didn’t seem much the parlor trick to me. All skepticism aside this gentleman was a great Master of Martial Art. He has passed from this earth and deserves our respect.
Peace[/QUOTE]
1.5 inches THICK?
in retrospect, I find the first demo to be less impressive then it seems, in regards to the physics behind it (meaning that breaking the concrete doesn’t require that much force, and you don’t follow through on the swing); however, the second and third ones are a totally different ball game: the wire breaking was pure - in other words, the “trick” a lot of people do with that is kinking it to create a weak point - sifu never did that - he just put the wire on straight and popped those suckers - and it wasn’t always easy, sometimes it took more effort then he would let on; as for breaking the concrete over his head that way, ouch…and no baked bricks for him, he’d pick 'em up at construction site or Home Depot on the way to the gig!
the old man was a character - Mike P. (Lama Pai Sifu) and I have had some great “reflective” discussions (had one today!) about what made him tick, what the essence of his art was, how it manifested through him, why he was “successful” as a fighter; if nothing else, spending time with him was a real wake-up call in terms of dispelling a lot of the BS surrounding TCMA training and usage;
from the “so i tired something new today” thread by shaolinueb,
I wrote…I can withstand a pretty hard chop to the trechea but to break a wooden bo is remarkable and unheard of. I can bend 6’ X 1/2 (#5) rebar with several years of conditioning…but it depends on how long the bar is.. I cannot bend it if its say 6" long
to which eddie replied
thats always been part of the trick. you press up, then forward. pretty simple and very basic concept. now try the re-bar. its even just as simple, but for that trick you need a partner thats in on it
then ten tigers said
pressing against the suprasternal notch is key in this trick, you can do it with a spear, staff, sword, or rebar. I used to do it with target arrows, and kitchen knives, when I was a teen. Bending it up is fun too. You use your chin as a brace.
The key is knowing how to bend it and having a good partner.
as far as where you concentrate your ch’i is concerned? Heck, you can concentrate it in your shoe if it makes you happy. It’s a trick, remember?
so my point is why when I as well as others do this its just a trick utilizing NO skill , but when Master Chan does it everyone respects it and calls it hard qigong? Just curious…
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;911545]
so my point is why when I as well as others do this its just a trick utilizing NO skill , but when Master Chan does it everyone respects it and calls it hard qigong? Just curious…[/QUOTE]
again, personally, I agree about the bending part - you are not bending by pushing with your neck against the point, you are pushing up / forwards against the flat of the blade with the top of the sternum; so that particular demo, IMPE, is not indicative of iron-anything;
the wires and the head break - that’s another story…
again I respect who he was and not trying to be out of line here,
but neither demo impressed me.. the wire break is bringing the qi from the lower dantien to the upper dantien.. we call this jumbei in qigong you expand the chest cavity.. while it takes practice to cultivate the qi, years actually the break is a just a result of this expansion… and breaking a patio block is well… easy… my son and his friend did this in the yard with some blocks I had left over they wear calling themselves iron heads.. they are 13 yrs old cinder blocks break when you touch them wrong..
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;911559]again I respect who he was and not trying to be out of line here,
but neither demo impressed me.. the wire break is bringing the qi from the lower dantien to the upper dantien.. we call this jumbei in qigong you expand the chest cavity.. while it takes practice to cultivate the qi, years actually the break is a just a result of this expansion… and breaking a patio block is well… easy… my son and his friend did this in the yard with some blocks I had left over they wear calling themselves iron heads.. they are 13 yrs old cinder blocks break when you touch them wrong..[/QUOTE]
no disrespect in honestly questioning, I think it’s a sign of intelligence;
anway, the bit about the wire - certainly it’s about thoracic expansion - which is why the wire needs to be tightly wrapped! but it is still a skill that, as you say, takes time to develop; what I found impressive was how the skin responded - one of us tried a single wire once and had a red mark for quite some time - his red marks dissapeared in very short order;
the patio block, ok, maybe I can see that - of course, he used to do the same thing with a brick as well, which i thicker and has less of a lever arm in a sense to break - but perhaps there is a “trick” to that as well, of which I am unaware
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;911496]
BUT wasnt it David Ross who told others on this board including me said that putting rebar against your throat was a ridiculous palour trick and was joke when someone does it? a
[/QUOTE]
I didn’t even post in that thread and never commented, so you must be mistaken at least in saying I made a comment about it
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;911567]I didn’t even post in that thread and never commented, so you must be mistaken at least in saying I made a comment about it[/QUOTE]
well I heard you have a smelly gym (maybe some vinegar?)
[QUOTE=Oso;911528]1.5 inches THICK?[/QUOTE]
Perhaps I exaggerate 
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;911559]again I respect who he was and not trying to be out of line here,
but neither demo impressed me.. the wire break is bringing the qi from the lower dantien to the upper dantien.. we call this jumbei in qigong you expand the chest cavity.. while it takes practice to cultivate the qi, years actually the break is a just a result of this expansion… and breaking a patio block is well… easy… my son and his friend did this in the yard with some blocks I had left over they wear calling themselves iron heads.. they are 13 yrs old cinder blocks break when you touch them wrong..[/QUOTE]
I was impressed then and now. I picked up a piece of the wire after and it was the heavy gage stuff or perhaps I exaggerate. :o
[QUOTE=Lokhopkuen;911581]Perhaps I exaggerate ;)[/QUOTE]
lol, ok…i’m not sure i’ve ever seen 1.5 inch rebar.
[QUOTE=Oso;911592]lol, ok…i’m not sure i’ve ever seen 1.5 inch rebar.[/QUOTE]
not only that, but how LONG is the rebar? From the pic I’ve seen of people doing it, the rebar is at least eight-ten feet long-which means, it bends on its own.
Do it with a three foot piece.
standard diameter for the thickest (widest diameter) rebar is about 1 1/4 inch. You can indeed get it thicker though, it would be custom though.
yea, but I don’t even know what exactly one would use rebar that size for…Hoover Dam maybe?
garden variety rebar is of the 1/2 and 5/8 variety…3/8 is also available but you can swing it through the air and bend it at an angle…I don’t even think i’ve ever seen 3/4 rebar at a job site at any time in the last 20 years.
and, no, not too many people are going to bend a 3’ piece of rebar w/ their throat…THAT would definitely require video proof.
[QUOTE=Oso;911603]yea, but I don’t even know what exactly one would use rebar that size for…Hoover Dam maybe?
garden variety rebar is of the 1/2 and 5/8 variety…3/8 is also available but you can swing it through the air and bend it at an angle…I don’t even think i’ve ever seen 3/4 rebar at a job site at any time in the last 20 years.
and, no, not too many people are going to bend a 3’ piece of rebar w/ their throat…THAT would definitely require video proof.[/QUOTE]
bridges mostly get the really thick stuff.
upright supports too, like in underground parking garages get pretty heavy duty reinforcement in the concrete.
Chuck Norris could bend 1.5 with his prong 
[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;911529]in retrospect, I find the first demo to be less impressive then it seems, in regards to the physics behind it (meaning that breaking the concrete doesn’t require that much force, and you don’t follow through on the swing); however, the second and third ones are a totally different ball game: the wire breaking was pure - in other words, the “trick” a lot of people do with that is kinking it to create a weak point - sifu never did that - he just put the wire on straight and popped those suckers - and it wasn’t always easy, sometimes it took more effort then he would let on; as for breaking the concrete over his head that way, ouch…and no baked bricks for him, he’d pick 'em up at construction site or Home Depot on the way to the gig!
the old man was a character - Mike P. (Lama Pai Sifu) and I have had some great “reflective” discussions (had one today!) about what made him tick, what the essence of his art was, how it manifested through him, why he was “successful” as a fighter; if nothing else, spending time with him was a real wake-up call in terms of dispelling a lot of the BS surrounding TCMA training and usage;[/QUOTE]
You guys were very lucky, too bad you turned out to be glorified kickboxers.
