Originally posted by red5angel
[B]mat - agreed on all your points, why I posted here and not there. however, I find the whole situation more then a little ironic if you ask me. If anyone else were to start a thread like that they’d be heckled out of the forum in no time flat. They certainly wouldn’t have several people pushing flame wars to other threads out of respect.
I’m not sayin’, I’m just sayin’ [/B]
chan tai san just recently died. He has several people who can account for some of the things he may have been able to do. Not everyone here boasts about someone who has that to their credit. Masters who have been dead 50 years or more, etc.
he just just recently died. that thread may be serving as some type of outlet for ross, who is/was grieving over his sifu.
he trained ross, who has trained several champions and has one of the better gyms in the country. That in itself would make it easier to believe that chan tai san was really that good.
these are just my opinions from the outside looking in though - I haven’t read that thread…
several people who can easily verify…is just as easy to fake as someone who has been long dead. I just read a signed affidavit testimonial from a guy claming his kungfumaster can lift soda cans with touching them. That guy is still alive.
Sure, but the irony still remains.
I’m not saying Chan Tai San didn’t know how to fight, I"m not even saying he didn’t do what Ross says he has. I’m just pointing out how ironic I think it is that people will swallow most of this with no question, then flip to another thread and make fun of someone who claims similar skills.
Originally posted by knifefighter I once knocked out a bee that was buzzing around me with a single punch. Could I ever do it again? I doubt it. However, imagine the stories that would evolve if I were a Chinese “master” and I had done that in front of a bunch of impressionable students.
you’ve got to be kidding, right?
wow dude you really are a bad ass…:eek:
Seven, don’t you have the power to hoik Knifefighter’s criticisms from that thread onto this one, and delete them from there?
And sure Red, you’re on the ball again. But this guy lived until like a couple of months ago. So it’s even more ironic that there may be some proof of some of these things existing beyond people’s stories, but:
who’s gonna go and find it? Do you think anyone can go and ask the Chinese army (which since then has been through several reforms no doubt, possibly including erasing/altering records)?
It ain’t gonna be video proof. It may be a death record, which may well have been altered, or it may have just recorded ‘accidental death’ or something as it wasn’t a combat death.
So again, you’ve got the video-heads saying there’s no record, and how could there be one?
So again it’s back to the science argument.
And nobody’s talking chi here, they’re talking massive trauma to an organ. And nobody’s talking about studying charts for the time of day, they’re talking about something nowhere near as difficult as punching a bee out of the air (especially if the opponent thinks you’re having a non-lethal sparring match and is just getting warmed up with an opening kick or two). And as Reggie says, you train for punching a bee out the air, you can punch a bee out the air.
Oh yeah, and I love Knifefighter’s no-nonsense approach on the WC forum: I agree with a lot of what he says. But I do think he’s being a ***** staying on Ross’s thread.
Whoever just locked that thread with the woofie-hunt on, can you do a lot of us a favour and clear those grave-pissing posts from the Chan Tai San thread onto this one please? Cheers.
Whoever just locked that thread with the woofie-hunt on, can you do a lot of us a favour and clear those grave-pissing posts from the Chan Tai San thread onto this one please? Cheers. [/B]
Originally posted by red5angel
[B]mat - agreed on all your points, why I posted here and not there. however, I find the whole situation more then a little ironic if you ask me. If anyone else were to start a thread like that they’d be heckled out of the forum in no time flat. They certainly wouldn’t have several people pushing flame wars to other threads out of respect.
I’m not sayin’, I’m just sayin’ [/B]
Who cares if it’s ironic. It’s a facinating read and a very engrossing look into a 10,000 year-old culture that is dieing away at an alarming rate. And what is wrong with respecting the heck out of Coach Ross’s teacher? He was an incredible man. You ever here of Chesty Puller? CTS sounds alot like a Chinese version, minus that whole general bit.
Knifefighter- Shush up and enjoy the storys or just stop reading them. Or keep you comments to this thread. Please.
The funny thing is that some people are reading things into Sifu Ross’ post that he didn’t say, or even hint at. Like “chi blasts”.
In boxing, people have died from ruptured spleens. I’ve seen a video of Russian Spetznaz recruits being hazed where one guy took a spinning back kick to the abdomen. He died from a ruptured liver. I saw a guy in high school with no skill or training at all say before a fight that he was going to punch his opponent in the throat & kill him. He went out there and he DID punch the guy in the throat, and made a serious effort to kill him before we dragged him off.
Chan Tai San had more skill and experience than probably anyone on this entire forum. If he really wanted to rupture a spleen, or damage a liver he may very well have been able to do just that.
No “death point” strikes or “chi blasts”. Just knowing what to do, how to do it and having the skill and power to pull it off.
Never mind the fact that he was an experienced physician with very advanced understanding of how pressure points affect the verious internal organs.
That one mentioned about Chan Tai San hitting one student and stunning his solor plexus for several seconds? That is not even an uncommon one; the first time I experiened that one was at the hands of one of my friends when I was very young… got hit in the stomach with a tether ball. I’ve had it done very deliberatly in sparring, usually with an elbow aimed a bit off the belly button. I have heard this technique discussed many, many times on this forum by non-Chi Gong peeps. Why is it so unbelieveable comming out of the mouths of a world-class coach and a trained physician (the other guy, who had CTS do this to him)?
Well, I think it’s difficult for many people to believe because it’s an incredibly difficult thing to do. I’ve boxed and I’ve fought full-contact matches in both Kung Fu and Karate. The human body is amazingly tough and resilient. And opponents aren’t usually very good about letting you get a clean shot in on them.
Hitting something like the solar plexus is pretty easy, also striking various other areas like the brachial nerve plexus, the common peronial nerve, etc. Not very difficult to do effectively. But to actually rupture an internal organ and cause death? Especially against a trained opponent. This is VERY difficult. I don’t think any of us have the ability to do this, except perhaps by accident of hitting hard enough, cleanly enough at just the right moment (when the opponent can’t defend against it) as well as using the proper angle to do that kind of damage to whichever organ is being targeted (so the force isn’t absorbed by muscle, bones, other organs, etc.).
If anyone could do it, I believe it would be master Chan or one of those who had a similar level of training and experience. I don’t think that includes any of us.
Originally posted by cerebus If anyone could do it, I believe it would be master Chan or one of those who had a similar level of training and experience. I don’t think that includes any of us.
Originally posted by Becca
[B]Who cares if it’s ironic. It’s a facinating read and a very engrossing look into a 10,000 year-old culture that is dieing away at an alarming rate. And what is wrong with respecting the heck out of Coach Ross’s teacher? He was an incredible man. You ever here of Chesty Puller? CTS sounds alot like a Chinese version, minus that whole general bit.
Knifefighter- Shush up and enjoy the storys or just stop reading them. Or keep you comments to this thread. Please. [/B]
Have I ever heard of chesty puller?! 4 Years as a marine here!!!
As for who cares, or 10 thousand year old culture, I didn’t realize Chan Tai San was that old. I was under the impression he was like the rest of us mortals and grew up over the last century?
I never said there was anything wron with respecting him. I’m just pointing out the irony in the entire process. Coach Ross, a respected person on this forum because he teaches fighters, tells a story about his instructor killing a guy with one punch, and no one bats an eye. All he get’s is oooohs and aaaahhhss. If ANYONE else were to start telling these stories then much like ashlee simpson, they would get booed off the stage for telling kungfu myths as real life.
I’m trying to underline a common issue in the martial arts, and especially on this forum. As long as you don’t make a lot of huge and bizarre claims, or have a credible background then you can tell any story you want and it’s ok? I understand Chan Tai San JUST passed away but how does that make his stories, told by other people, any more credible then some of the stories that get laughed off of this board? I’ve heard several very similar stories from sources almost or as close as Ross was to Chan Tai San, and seen them ridiculed.
I’m not disrespecting Ross or his Teacher, obviously Ross knows what he is doing, and we can assume that Ross learned alot of what he knows from Chan Tai San, but - and correct me if I’m wrong - but Ross isn’t even teaching his fighters what Chan Tai San taught him?
also, just to reiterate - I’m not saying you can’t knockout, stun or kill someone in one shot. It happens, it can be explained medically, and scientifically without the need for chi bullsh!t. I’m also not sayin Chan didn’t do any of these things. I’m not arguing whether Ross is telling a lie or not.
yeah red , thats just the way the world works though, I don’t find that any way ironic.
If no one here ever heard of David Ross or Chan Tai San before all of this and he made those claims, perhaps the subject would be viewed with alot more scepticism. The fact that these are two well known figures and that they both have solid reputations makes it less likely for the subject to be taken as dubious.
LKFMDC isn’t even saying anything bizarre and out there. It might be a bit unpallatable for some, but so far he hasn’t made any claims SO obnoxious that we should assume that he is lying or creating/asserting a myth.
Just buy a copy of Incredible feats of Qigong from MAM
I don’t think it was mentioned that cts killed the guy with ‘one shot’, let alone with a chi blast or any such nonsense. in fact it was stated that there were few details of the fight, but there was consensus on the result.
Originally posted by MutantWarrior I don’t think it was mentioned that cts killed the guy with ‘one shot’, let alone with a chi blast or any such nonsense. in fact it was stated that there were few details of the fight, but there was consensus on the result.
It didn’t say one shot. It didn’t mention chi. Aaaannnnddd you are correct about your second statement too.
The chi blast and one punch are Red’s extrapolations. His straw men. He can’t seem to help himself!
Originally posted by red5angel 1. - several people who can easily verify…is just as easy to fake as someone who has been long dead. I just read a signed affidavit testimonial from a guy claming his kungfumaster can lift soda cans with touching them. That guy is still alive.
heh, I can do that, and I’m no master.
2. - Sure, but the irony still remains.
I don’t disagree.
3. - I’m not saying Chan Tai San didn’t know how to fight, I"m not even saying he didn’t do what Ross says he has. I’m just pointing out how ironic I think it is that people will swallow most of this with no question, then flip to another thread and make fun of someone who claims similar skills.
yeah, that’s what I was talking about too. It’s easier to believe as his accomplishments are known. sugar ray robinson has had 200 pro fights and has only lost 19. ninja joe has had 200 fights and only lost 17. which is more believable and why?
