With the whole boxcutter-hijacking thing, has anyone started doing any knife training? I have been considering doing some more, and was wondering how you did empty hand versus knife training. From a Wing Chun view.
Knife work
I do like to introduce Knife defence around Chum Kiu Level.
Usually with a rubber Knife.
An interesting variation is to put a non indellible ink (felt tip pen) along the ‘Live’ edge of the knife. This gives you a cut mark if you mess up and get tagged.
In shows how it’s difficult to disarm a knifer who REALLY tries to cut you without getting nicked.
Can be done, but whats the point with any training where you ***** foot around with slow motion, preset attacks ?
In reality I’d run as fast as I could, but if neccessary I’d bridge the carrying arm and break it as quick as possible.
Just my take on it.
Regards
Dave F
‘wing chun men do it with sticky hands’
I run away from most real fights as well, but I still train for them. I was thinking of the boxcutter in the airplane situation. You can’t run. You can only fight. The jujitsu I took had basic knife stuff. You try to isolate the knife hand do a disarm etc etc…but how does Wing Chun deal empty handed with a knife?
It’s different in different schools of thought.
When we practiced some anti-knife stuff recently, we did it aggressively. The attitude of the class was the more you step back/yield in a knife attack, the more chances you’re giving the knifer to cut you. The beauty of a blade is that it can do as much damage protracting as it can retracting, something else which influenced the class that day.
So rather than focusing just on the knife and a disarm, we disrupted the “general” : evasion with a strike to the head (palm, eye gouge, fak sau, etc.) with control of the knife arm. Not necessarily a disarm, but sometimes resulting in self-stabbing the knifer.
It’s hard to put in to words, but suffice it to say, we trained acting more aggressively and more forward intent than other knife defense classes I’ve participated in.
So you rush in to crowd the knife?
Does no one else train empty-hand against knife? Or stick?
FWIW
Hello,
I used to train strictly Wing Chun and introduced knife defense between SNT and CK. I place more of an emphasis on deflecting, and then attacking to the body in order to incapaciate the person. I always felt this was better than becoming to focused on the knife itself. If you are able to evade the initial attack and strike someone in the throat or eyes you can possibly eliminate the threat.
However, I also train in the art of Pekiti Tirsia and have found that systems emphasis on Knife work to be quite valuable.
I still belive that if one faces the knife, or any edged weapon, one should expect to be cut. Those that believe they can face a knife and not get cut fall into one of two catagories.
- Those who have never faced a knife for real and overestimate their abilities.
- Those who skill level is way above the norm.
Oh there is a third
- Those looked after by the LORD or blessed with incredible good luck.
If you really want to learn about knife defense then seek out someone who actually trains in a realistic manner. If you happen to find someone claiming this type of background ask to see their scars. I am a firm believer that anyone worth their salt for realistic knife defense will have the marks to show they have paid their dues.
Wing Chun is quite capable of dealing with knife and edged weapons attacks. My feeling is again not to concentrate on the weapon and control of it. This can cause one to become too narrow in their views and thus become tunnel-blind. I feel that one should make use of side stepping and the cutting of angels, to evade or avoid the initial strike then attack aggressively the weakspots of the opponent, eyes, throat, groin and kneecaps. Regardless of the method chosen one thing remains, IMHO, constant; when you attack you attack as aggressively and efficiently as possible going for VITAL targets. Destroy the opponents ability to continue the attack. Do not attempt anything fancy or play games, one mistake and you will get cut. Most likley you will get cut anyhow so be mentally prepared for that eventuality. If you manage to defend without being cut then say a prayer of thanks.
Peace,
Dave
Hi Dave!
Wow,
I didn’t know you taught knife defense. I’d love to get your perspective on it one of these days if we ever meet up 
We keep missing each other. I spoke with some of the guys who went to the tourney and they had a blast. Wish I could have made it.
Take care,
Marcus
In America you can go on the air and kid the politicians, and the politicians can go on the air and kid the people.
I agree with Dave, and I think my knife training was basically trying to convey the same idea: “attack the general, not the soldiers,” i.e., the knifer, not just the knife.
They used to teach knife defense in a wing chun school I used to go to.It was the usual reactive way we usually see everywhere:Side steps,grabbing of the knife arm,sort of chin-na or aikido tricks.Well,all of this came to a stop when I took the attack with the rubber knife!..I attacked for real,not these stupid telegraphed attacks everybody is showing off against!..The Sifu was looking at me with big round eyes as I cutted and slashed with great ease everybody who tried to defend against me.
I believe that focussing too much on the knife is bad.Attack the guy in a ferocious way and go for vital spots,eyes,knees,groin,troat with everything you got!..That is only if you have absolutely no other choice.
I also learned that a knife in the hands of a wing chun man is something to be taken seriously!
Les paroles s’envolent.
Les écrits restent!..