Marc Laimon is a good MMA grappling trainer who never fought.
Cus D’Amato and Angelo Dundee are boxing trainers who never fought. Dundee is in the International Boxing Hall of Fame as a trainer.
[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;1119754]Actually kimbos boxing isn’t that bad, it’s just everything else in his arsenal that sucks.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;1119723]Kimbo isn’t a great mma fighter or anything, but he has sense enough not to telegraph his punches as do most boxers.[/QUOTE]
Kimbo is making his boxing debut on August 13th against 39 year old James Wade who is 0-1.
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1119841]I’m in total agreement with his alignment, elbow down, non-telegraphic movement, etc.
I’m not too keen on his power generation, however. The way he’s throwing it, I am not sure if it has enough body behind the blow. If he can do the same thing but engage his body more during the power chain, it would be quick, not telegraphic, and powerful.[/QUOTE]
That is why it is not good to take kung fu principles and mix them with other “irrelevant” martial arts. The thinking behind the principles have been done for us a 100 years ago, or more. So, we need to practice the correct way, in order to get the full benefit.
The boxer who was showing this stuff to Kimbo, was obviously no kung fu fighter, but he had somehow come to the conclusion that his way had benefits, which is fair enough, but as I stated before, what he was showing was just a small window into the profoundness of the TCMAs.
[QUOTE=Frost;1119813]personally id give it credit if he could show those principles in action against kimbo, should be easy to do right…:)[/QUOTE]
Irrelevant. The principles of not telegraphing your move to the opponent shoule make sense to any actual fighter, even if they are taught to you by a 75 year old man.
It just makes sense. Also, the fact that sometimes you can be slow, yet you can be more effective than fast, should be something that provokes a figher or a potential fighter, into researching this concept further.
[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;1119811]If I watched this without sound, I would agree with you. Since I paid attention to the audio, I thought it was a mixed bag of faulty logic and show boating. The, “instructor,” demonstrated martial arts technique, but nothing he said was worthwhile.[/QUOTE]
I am only going with the TCMA principles that I saw, and nothing else.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1120316]That is why it is not good to take kung fu principles and mix them with other “irrelevant” martial arts. The thinking behind the principles have been done for us a 100 years ago, or more. So, we need to practice the correct way, in order to get the full benefit.
The boxer who was showing this stuff to Kimbo, was obviously no kung fu fighter, but he had somehow come to the conclusion that his way had benefits, which is fair enough, but as I stated before, what he was showing was just a small window into the profoundness of the TCMAs.[/QUOTE]
hes not a boxer, he is an actor, which means its all theory he has never actually fought a skilled opponent with head strikes allowed
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1120317]Irrelevant. The principles of not telegraphing your move to the opponent shoule make sense to any actual fighter, even if they are taught to you by a 75 year old man.
It just makes sense. Also, the fact that sometimes you can be slow, yet you can be more effective than fast, should be something that provokes a figher or a potential fighter, into researching this concept further.[/QUOTE]
nope unless you can show it in action its useless, principles like that are great, ever wonder why you dont see fighters like kimbo using methods like that…
actually, he has quite an extensive Martial arts background, including Kyokushin. Just because he has not fought in a cage does not mean he hasn’t fought. But..yeah, you’re right. He’s not a pro fighter, and there is a huge difference.
[QUOTE=Frost;1120323]nope unless you can show it in action its useless, principles like that are great, ever wonder why you dont see fighters like kimbo using methods like that…[/QUOTE]
You are mainly referring to the slow punch?
[QUOTE=Frost;1120044]i think its hard to teach something you have never done[/QUOTE]
Tell that to Bela Karolyi!
Every coach I know HAS done his chosen sport, just like every MA teacher I know HAS done his chosen MA.
They may not h ave competed at a high level or even at all, but ALL of then HAVE experience in their chosen sport.
Marc Laimon is a good MMA grappling trainer who never fought.
Cus D’Amato and Angelo Dundee are boxing trainers who never fought. Dundee is in the International Boxing Hall of Fame as a trainer.
I don’t know Marc but I am sure he has more than enough experience IN HIS Sport to teach it.
As for Cus and Angelo, they did fight, you don’t box without fighting in their day.
They may not have had impressive records, but that doesn’t take away from their amazing teaching ability.
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1120351]actually, he has quite an extensive Martial arts background, including Kyokushin. Just because he has not fought in a cage does not mean he hasn’t fought. But..yeah, you’re right. He’s not a pro fighter, and there is a huge difference.[/QUOTE]
eh i dont know i believe he said he got his bb in kk karate at 12 which is pretty much impossible no?
[QUOTE=Frost;1120323]nope unless you can show it in action its useless, principles like that are great, ever wonder why you dont see fighters like kimbo using methods like that…[/QUOTE]
Boxers raise their elbows and shoulders when they punch, raising the shoulder and tucking the chin gives the boxer protection. There is a difference in alignment because of this, which negates the elbow down structure of most TCMA strikes. I’m sure one can find a happy medium, but if you give up on protection, you may be doing yourself a disservice.
TCMAists are looking to intercept strikes before they come to the head and don’t take them on the arms and gloves as much (although in Hung Kuen, we do have this), which is why the cover is different-hands more forward.
(don’t confuse this to mean a non-fighter’s over extended pose, just more forward than a boxer’s)
[QUOTE=goju;1120365]eh i dont know i believe he said he got his bb in kk karate at 12 which is pretty much impossible no?[/QUOTE]
yeah, I’m just saying, don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. Too many people have this black or white attitude. Either he fought in the cage, or he has no useful knowledge.
Well, I guess this is fine for some, but they miss out on many opportunities in their lives.
Guys, even if some coaches have no competition experience in the sports that they coach, let’s not take exceptions to prove the rule. Second, we don’t know for sure why these guys were good, “coaches.”
Guys like Master Toddy have, “trained,” numerous MT champions, but he mostly follows the, “CEO” model, where he brings in great trainers who may have had decent fighting careers to train. Toddy is successful because he is more businessman not that he is necessarily the best or most knowledgeable MT coach out there. However, I would bet that he employs the best.
[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;1119889]Do do you think that boxing trainers who haven’t fought are less proficient than ones who have?[/QUOTE]
I was going to out and out disagree with this statement, but my favorite (and the most underrated fighter of all time) fighter Joe Calzaghe was trained by his father, who’s only experience was reading a book on boxing.
However, I’d say on the whole a trainer who has fought would be better than one who has not.
[QUOTE=Darthlawyer;1120480]I was going to out and out disagree with this statement,
[/QUOTE]
It was a question.
but my favorite (and the most underrated fighter of all time) fighter Joe Calzaghe was trained by his father, who’s only experience was reading a book on boxing.
[QUOTE=Darthlawyer;1120480]
However, I’d say on the whole a trainer who has fought would be better than one who has not.[/QUOTE]
It looks like he had a chance to work with some professional trainers if this information is correct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enzo_Calzaghe
Whilst in Cardiff, Enzo got involved in the local boxing gym and met Paul Williams, who was trainer of the Newbridge boxing club. Williams invited Enzo to bring his son Joe Calzaghe along. Joe became a regular at the gym and Enzo became Paul’s assistant trainer." Williams retired when Joe was 18 and Enzo took over the gym.[1] Enzo Calzaghe has also won ‘Coach of the Year’ at the BBC Sports Personality awards, Ring Magazine trainer of the year for 2007[1] and Eddie Futch-John F.X. Condon Award, awarded by the Boxing Writers Association of America, for Trainer of the Year 2007.
[QUOTE=Darthlawyer;1120480]I was going to out and out disagree with this statement,
[/QUOTE]
It was a question.
[QUOTE=Darthlawyer;1120480]
but my favorite (and the most underrated fighter of all time) fighter Joe Calzaghe was trained by his father, who’s only experience was reading a book on boxing.
[/QUOTE]
It looks like he had a chance to work with some professional trainers if this information is correct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enzo_Calzaghe
Whilst in Cardiff, Enzo got involved in the local boxing gym and met Paul Williams, who was trainer of the Newbridge boxing club. Williams invited Enzo to bring his son Joe Calzaghe along. Joe became a regular at the gym and Enzo became Paul’s assistant trainer." Williams retired when Joe was 18 and Enzo took over the gym.[1] Enzo Calzaghe has also won ‘Coach of the Year’ at the BBC Sports Personality awards, Ring Magazine trainer of the year for 2007[1] and Eddie Futch-John F.X. Condon Award, awarded by the Boxing Writers Association of America, for Trainer of the Year 2007.
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1120351]actually, he has quite an extensive Martial arts background, including Kyokushin. Just because he has not fought in a cage does not mean he hasn’t fought. But..yeah, you’re right. He’s not a pro fighter, and there is a huge difference.[/QUOTE]
and as i said hes not fought full contact with head shots (i have seen his kyokushin background, they compete without head shots correct?)
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1120369]Boxers raise their elbows and shoulders when they punch, raising the shoulder and tucking the chin gives the boxer protection. There is a difference in alignment because of this, which negates the elbow down structure of most TCMA strikes. I’m sure one can find a happy medium, but if you give up on protection, you may be doing yourself a disservice.
TCMAists are looking to intercept strikes before they come to the head and don’t take them on the arms and gloves as much (although in Hung Kuen, we do have this), which is why the cover is different-hands more forward.
(don’t confuse this to mean a non-fighter’s over extended pose, just more forward than a boxer’s)[/QUOTE]
and as i said please show it in action against a boxer etc trying to take your head off, i have yet to see anyone succesfully do this ovr and over in full contact enviroment, have you?