I have noticed that FMA tends to be associated with a lot of schools that bill themselves as JKD.
I’m curious about where JKD has gone since Bruce Lee’s death.
I understand the obvious connection between Dan Inasanto and FMA and JKD but it seems as if there are JKD groups not associated with DI that also claim FMA.
just curious
And what’s the deal with Burt Richardson, anyway? That guy pizzes me off.
Standard disclaimer: As far as I know…
As far as I know, here’s the deal: Bruce Lee decided that he wanted to close the JKD schools. Probably something about them becoming too institutionalized or some such. After he passed away, though, Dan Inosanto and others (notably Richard Bustillo) felt it important that Lee’s ideas get passed on. At the same time, they wanted to honour his wish that there not be any actual ‘JKD schools.’
Inosanto was one of Ed Parker’s high-ranking kenpo guys prior to meeting Lee. Through the research they did together, though, he got turned on to the arts of his own heritage, the Philippines. So Guros Dan and Richard get the idea to promote the Filipino arts and provide a place for JKD training to continue with a select few students. So the two were taught side by side. And the practice of one began to inform the practice of the other.
As far as there being JKD groups that practice FMA without having come ‘through’ Dan Inosanto, I don’t know. To my knowledge (another disclaimer), the JKD teachers who also teach FMA can all be traced back to Inosanto. Or they weren’t directly connected to JKD in the first place (e.g., Dr. Jerry Beasley).
To my mind, there are basically three schools of JKD. Original JKD, JKD concepts, and what I regard as a slightly different school of thought, as embodied by people like Demi Barbito and Matt Thornton. (But that one can be debated ad nauseum.) I think that’s kind of a reflection of some people’s frustration with the trend in JKD to concentrate more on bringing obscure arts into the limelight (as opposed to concentrating on a core concept). Style-of-the-month club.
As a sidenote, I don’t think Guro Dan uses the JKD monniker a whole lot these days. But I might be wrong about that.
Stuart B.
Since Bruces death, imo, jkd has become a non classical mess.
It really is a hodge podge of this and that.
At least Inosanto calls a spade a spade, but so many others are so nebulous about what they offer. Many also attempt to structure it into a set style. This goes against the original concept.
IE: use what works for you, throw away what doesn’t. So, how can what works for you be what works for me and how can what works for you be taught to me in a system that doesn’t necessarily work for me?
I also disagree that TCMA is a classical mess. This statement alone clearly shows that there wasn’t a real depth of understanding there on Lee’s part.
Look at the evolution of many styles. Hung of different lineages has incorporated many new forms and ideas through it’s current propogaters. Each lineage has it’s own methods and ways of teaching martial art to it’s students.
Wing Chun itself has undergone a lot of changes.
Choy Li fut has quite a few differences from lineage to lineage, and so on with a good deal of other styles.
Tasting a dumpling from each of the dim sum carts by no means makes you a master chef.
If your teacher can bring the best traits out of you by design, then that is what success is. Both for yourself and your teacher.
You simply must put in the effort. Your teacher did!
Being a light philosopher, I do think that Lee scorned Confucian ideals and gravitated to the more vague teachings of Taoism and Chan.
Confucious created many of the ideals and principles that we see in a typical martial arts school today. Filial piety, hirarcichal structure, shared accountabilty in success and failure, and so on.
Taoism and Chan on the other hand can be interpreted in such a way as to only have meaning to the interpreter while given to teh listener a seed and a means to make their own interpretations.
Now, when you put all these interpretations of philosophical thought under one banner (JKD), there will be a lot of confusion, and there is.
IMO, structure is key in the beginning stages of learning an art. There are foundational teachings that cannot be skipped over because it will show in the end result.
Once you have accumulated a good body of material in your training, that is when your style becomes a library. ach library holds a favourite book (metaphor) and it is that book we will read the most. But we will still read the others that compliment and enforce the ideas and concepts of the favourite.
To me, JKD is more like a stack of magazines in this way, and everybody only brought their favourite magazine.
anyway…
cheers
Originally posted by MasterKiller
And what’s the deal with Burt Richardson, anyway? That guy pizzes me off.
He p-sses you off? Why?
Burton Richardson is one of Inosanto’s lineage. I met him years and years ago at a WEKAF tournament in San Francisco. He wasn’t a prominent instructor yet. In fact, I didn’t realize that we’d met until years afterward.
Anyway, when he first came onto the scene, I think he kinda fell into that category I mentioned. Concentrated on the diversity of JKD, arguably to a fault. (Or not) I mean, he’d write articles on his experiences learning zulu stickfighting, for example. He (and other JKD concepts guys) had almost become martial encyclopedias, taking the research & development phase to its extreme. (Or the research part of it anyway.)
In his early instructional tapes, Richardson tended to pimp the ‘universality’ of JKD rather than its effectiveness. I think that’s a trap I fell into for a while too. Accumulating drills to cover punching, kicking, flowing, trapping, knife, stick…
More recently, though, I gather that Richardson has changed his ideas a lot. He sounds (based on his posts on discussion boards) like he’s chosen to get back to basics. Everything gets filtered through full-contact sparring.
Stuart B.
He p-sses you off? Why?
Mainly, it’s the way he comes off in his “Burt Offerings” articles in IKF. Half the time, he’s pimping other martial arts, but calling it JKD. And anytime he receives criticism, his only reply seems to be “Yeah, but I spar a lot.”
“Don’t like my opinions? But I spar a lot.”
“Think I’m an arrogant @ss? But I spar a lot.”
“My hair is too pretty? But I spar a lot.”
Anyway, I don’t know the guy, so maybe I just have a bad impression of him. He just rubs me the wrong way.
Originally posted by MasterKiller
[B]
Mainly, it’s the way he comes off in his “Burt Offerings” articles in IKF. Half the time, he’s pimping other martial arts, but calling it JKD. And anytime he receives criticism, his only reply seems to be “Yeah, but I spar a lot.”
“Don’t like my opinions? But I spar a lot.”
“Think I’m an arrogant @ss? But I spar a lot.”
“My hair is too pretty? But I spar a lot.”
Anyway, I don’t know the guy, so maybe I just have a bad impression of him. He just rubs me the wrong way. [/B]
Well, I can relate. At various times, I’ve had a similar reaction to Richardson. But my general impression is that he’s a sincere advocate of JKD.
Is it the message that bothers you, or the way he delivers it?
Is it the message that bothers you, or the way he delivers it?
Both.
I lump him in with the other well-known instructors who advocate studying 6 months of every style, instead of just sticking to one or possibly two. You said he seems to be changing his colors in this regard, so I’ll wait and see.
I usually avoid his articles, though, because of the tone of his delivery as well.
Well, I haven’t read anything he’s written in years (except for the occassional forum post). So I’m in a similar boat. But by my nature, I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. I may not support everything he’s done or how he’s done it. But I suspect he’s a good teacher, all the same.
A concept of go with what you can do or who you are. The teacher stops teaching and one of the most out going students does Philipino martial Art as a prior primary.
Name of the new done with the flavor of the passed. New-hearers and new-seers associate the name as going with what is presented.
New people have mindset of do it this way. Not all students can teah to the level /understanding of the Teacher.
Bruce Lee JKD gone only to those he tutled. Students teach what they understand with their agenda(s). Next generation does so much established school stuff JKD is add on to Philipino stuff it might seem. So Philipino schools Add some other stuff to rid the coat tails of the great-things-said-about JKD.
Whatever whatever some might say, some-such perhaps
That post hurt my brain.
It also made baby jesus cry!
no know, you really must post the same way you would actually say something.
Talking gibberish really doesn’t make you more mystical you know. 
It just makes you harder to understand.
Leave that to the kwai Chang wannabes hahahaha.
just being facetious! be what you want…
cheers
No Know,
I don’t think that’s entirely it though. Inosanto’s prior primary style was kenpo. Not FMA. So I think what Inosanto took with him was that idea of research and development. He went forward to find FMA. Not backward into his own prior experience.
Does that make sense?
I think it’s that idea of R&D that got a little out of control in later generations though. Heavy on the R. Light on the D.
Stuart B.
Originally posted by Kung Lek
[B]It also made baby jesus cry!
no know, you really must post the same way you would actually say something.
Talking gibberish really doesn’t make you more mystical you know. It just makes you harder to understand.
Leave that to the kwai Chang wannabes hahahaha.
just being facetious! be what you want…
cheers [/B]
Uh, Kung Lek. That’s precisely how he talks in real life.
You get used to it. And it’s well worth the effort.
Stuart B.
Nevertheless, I’m changing my sig in his honor.
Kung Lek said in post #889888998822877872
just being facetious! be what you want…
I am used to nk’s posts having been reading them for some such other times as was to be in the beginning of his membership here at this some such other well could be but maybe is it ? forum?
peanuts!
Kung Lek,
Well, sure. Most of us have gotten used to his writing style. But it came as a surprise to me to learn that it wasn’t just a writing style. But a complete communication style.
In any event, viva el No Know!
I actually enjoyed Richardson’s articles. I can understand the problem with too much R and not enough D, but I think it’s good that some people make the journey and relate it. And I always got the impression that he really enjoyed what he was doing, and just wanted to share that.
I haven’t read any of his articles in a while, so I don’t know what they’re like now. Martial arts mags actually hurt my brain. With the exception of KFQG, of course.
And yes, I’m a major kiss up.
yes, i agree with that kc.
the old “big on why, short on how” syndrome most often rears it’s head in many of those schools that focus strictly on a few ideas drawn from one of BL’s books.
Which by the way are mostly drawn from classical writings and philosophical waxings! I really do think he repackaged some Chinese philosophy for the mcdonalds marketplace.
Unfortunate…
cheers
apoweyn, O.K. Let me look…
Kempo before JKD! hmmm? O.K., Within JKD, explored into FMA. Perhaps found it so new and interesting and beautiful that he’s still exploring-ish.
If FMA Was found w/i JKD then yes , not previous primary.
However, if FMA was his first major exploration and he is still there, perhaps he at least found FMA and it impressed him and Used that as His, Base (nucleus) from which to JKD.
Hopefully, Not trying to prove prior say as correct (merely letting it be known). As to your recent pointing-out, merely going from there. :~>