I’ve been thinking about how this mma thing came about and I’ve been thinking it’s not at all the gracie’s fault. First off Royce beat shamrock in UFC 1. The original show was style vs. style , a promotion for GJJ, and jason delucia is only one red sash so it doesn’t bother me. UFC was almost banned for good. But then after many losses and the most boring time limit draws ever seen ( dan severn , oleg taktarov, etc.), Ken Shamrock stats pushing this sport ****, trying to lump jiu-jitsu , pankration , wrestling all together as “grappling” instead of associating jui-jitsu with martial arts like kungfu. Now it’s too late and the world has changed and is out of control.
How long have you known you were a troll, and when did you decide tiw as safe to come out from under your bridge?
All in all, I’ve got about 10 years in the biz.
By the by, it might be helpful for your credibility, such as it is, if you filled out your profile.
In fact, if you check my profile, you’ll see what you want to know about me.
Re: Is this current era the gracies fault or the shamrock’s fault
Originally posted by backbreaker
Now it’s too late and the world has changed and is out of control. I want a grappler to be killed by kungfu.
Why not report all grappling gymns and schools as Al Qaida training facilities?..Let Bush and his army take care of them!..:eek: 
Who’s responsible for this era?
So called “TMA experts” who claimed ridiculous, obnoxious, stupid things about their capabilities and styles, made fighting seem mystical and esoteric, and then who proceded to get a hideous beatdown from people who had never been taken seriously before.
The “TMA” would be taken a hell of a lot more seriously if there weren’t such a plethora of idiots out there spouting nonsense about how they’ll just drop into horse stance to counter a takedown, done deal, etc.
Yeah, I know.. that’s not REAL TMA…
Which leads me into one of my KFM conundrums:
If 99% of CMA taught out there is crap, how is it that everybody here is in the other 1%?
If everyone just did karate, this wouldn’t be a problem . . .
MP, because those people are simply in denial and will not see that grappling does work, just like TMA, under certain situations (I myself would not wanna grapple with broken glass around me if I could help it). They feel there beliefs are being destroyed.
Imagine proving to the Pope that God did not exist, imagine how someone who was that much into there religious beliefs was proven wrong, would they deny the proof? Or freak out and cry like a little pansy? Those who sit there and cry that grappling is only for the ring say that because they are simply denying it.
my personal observation is that the whole major shake up in the martial arts world came with the Gracies.
They simply put out the all styles challenge and consistently met and bested all comers. Once they had become know, they started to get countered, eventually they were countered a lot and even beaten at their own game by those who trained to do it.
I think that in the martial arts as an industry there are all kinds of people with the best intentions who just happen to be either promoted in a very hyped way by someone else, or are ineffective communicators themselves or indeed have been fed an incorrect history and repeat these misconceptions again and again.
But, I would say that history, lineage, esoteric blah blah et al has little or no meaning for martial artists who learn martial arts to refine their actual fighting skills.
There is a niche in TMA that has become a port for all kinds of shenanigans, that’s for sure. It’s easy to hide your inability in a crowd of people who are looking for magic and have thereby blinded themselves before they even came to you.
It is these same people that refuse to look at martial arts for what they really are. MARTIAL. So many have come to sit back on the esoteric and paid little attention to the hard work and it really shows in how they fight in a contest.
It’s hard to find the most balanced blend in martial art and esotericism which also helps teh person understand themselves, which is often part and parcel to this type of discipline.
And a lot of us tend to wear the rose tinted glasses when we look at an instructor, black belt, sifu etc etc. We are all human and we all have something to offer.
Merry- I think your just a bit jaded about it, but you know there are some for real kungfu guys out there in the world. The real good ones just aren’t as accessible as we would like them to be and that’s their choice to make. You can’t force someone to teach you afterall, no matter how badly you want to know.
Just sayin. 
cheers
It’s my fault
Sorry 'bout that.
I’d love to do some grappling. I’ve done a bit with some rather skillful BJJ peeps, actually.
But, with the existence of a rather bothersome back problem, I think I’m gonna be an armchair warrior in this
Reality check…
MA is not that big.
UFC isn’t that well known either. The average person on “the street” couldn’t tell bas ruten from sigfried and roy.
I blame karate.
I think merry is lost in the drama of the story.
The average person on “the street” couldn’t tell bas ruten from sigfried and roy.
I bet they could. Well it is easier now that one has a hole in his head and a big wound on his neck.
They still might mistake him for sigfried.
D@mnit, are they still prohibiting tigers from UFC?
I know tiger style is allowed, but I want real tigers!
Good point SA
MA is not that big.
Something we do forget.
I’m a karateka but think the entire BJJ and MMA thing is great. The Gracies opened up a style of fighting that was alien to most of us. MMA is a wonderful way to see how certain things may work against another highly trained fighter. The great thing about MMA is that nothing in the rules say that you have to be a grappler or a striker. You choose your fight game and see how it does. When I first came to this forum the big topic was raising mantids, now it’s how to counter this or that, the backfist, footwork and girlfriends who don’t pay bills. That’s progress in my book.
I do think though that the whole thing has become a generalized drama. The “TMAs” is a huge group of people that vary from extreme suckage to 5 demon bag. To corral them all into a studio apartment and give then one name is counter intuitive.
The same goes for MMA. I seen pisant weaklings say “they do MMA so you better watch out” so many times its not even funny anymore.
The rear naked choke could be applied to an animal?
Nah! You could never apply it on ME! 
-The Animal
I reverted to kung fu the other night, and dropped in a horse stance… I was taken down and hit my head. BTW, I just was a tad slow in my sprawl, so I got caught in between, hence the horse stance (lowering my level and didn’t get my hips back in time).
MMA is a good sports venue. Grappling of all kinds are usually good martial arts. Most grappling schools are like othe MA studios and don’t stay open long. If there were a larger pool of Kung Fu schools willing to lay it on the line in a sports format, you would see Kung Fu guys beat MMA/Grapplers. A lot of times, mixed martial arts just means be good at one thing, and be able to defend various types of attacks. Look at crocop, he’s got that viscious kick, and mainly trains to beat people that way. Many KF guys only think about themselves, and not their opponent because they never put themselves in position to be beat by their opponents (touch fighting). Good CMA has unfortunately been held close by and amongst other Chinese practitioners and circles. Those who have taken it outside those circles, except for some formats, have not done so in a way that translates well (they’ve adopted the Americanized Kratty Dojo method). Perhaps as San Shou develops, or a modified version that is more like vale tudo comes out, you will see KF guys start to kick ass. One of the core principles of CMA is flexability and adaptability. There is a current necessity for CMA to develop and expand venues for using KF in a realistic way, and not as an ego stroke.