hello,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zjdGr-Guhs
It doesn’t appear to me as just Chan, it looks there’s Cheung Yim or Buk Sing added as well. I have seen that in a few of Wong Ha’s students demo as well. Am I just confused?
Cheers
S
What’s pure these days? We’re 150+ years on. Things get picked up, things get dropped and things get changed.
Wong Ha learnt his CLF originally from Chan Yiu Chi & then after migrating to Hong Kong, he trained under his Sihing Tong Shek (also a student of Chan Yiu Chi whom Wong Ha acknowledged as his Sifu & himself being listed as 5th Generation).
The person performing is a student of Sifu Hilbert Yiu, a long time student of Wong Ha. Wong Ha has had many, many students since the mid 60s and those that have since gone on to teach, like Sifu Hilbert Yiu, have all added there own little modifications & such. In fact the CLF of one club stemming from Wong Ha can sometimes look very different from another.
By lineage is it Chan’s? I guess so. Elements similar to Jeung Yim & Buk Sing? It’s all CLF right?
I spoke with the performer of that particular form and I believe he said that it is
Ba Gwa Sum (75) beginning and the end it is changed it for demo/competing/keep things interesting purposes.
So although it is from Chan Lineage it has been modified on purpose by the performer.
Also Sifu Hilbert Yiu school teaches wushu and probably mixed some basic elements together. Since wushu is based mainly on traditional northern style that’s probably why you would believe it to be similar to Buk Sing.
The 9 baat kwa sets which this is a part of are part of the Chan family side or to expand Chan Koon Pak’s hung sing. These sets are generally not part of the Jeong Yim or Tam Sam line’s.
With that all out of the way is it pure Chan? Maybe the pattern/set itself but everything else is just CLF.
I wanted to edit this to make it more clear.
i’ve spoken with people about this because i wondered myself if it was connected to the Jeong Yim lineage. It seems i think someone in the lineage is connected to Chui Cheung.
However, the first few moves in the opening are in fact connected to the Fut San hung sing kwoon. those opening moves are found in Lau Bun’s Yuen Hai lineage, and Chan Ngau Sing’s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjqIkz-_FKU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMqGdIzCDzg
and then there’s this one…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z1NXmn-RAw
but the clip in mention, yeah, its part hung sing fut san in the first few moves, but is a chan family set.
I think many sifus have changed hoi jongs over the years. Also remember all the various sifus used to interact amongst each other back in the day. There wasn’t all the division that exists today.
I like this form. The flow seems good. Thumbs up to the performer.
thats true, they may have all been friends. but no one outside the hung sing branch has seen our hoi jong performed by any of you here on the forum. but verification of our fut san hoi jong starts with the Yuen Hai lineage, or any others from Lee Yan or Lui Chun, and Chan Ngau Sing.
No other lineage does our hoi jong. Buk Sing does fut san hoi jong with a buk sing ear mark. but its still fut san hoi jong. Not just Choy Lee FUt. it IS what we use to identify if you are part of our family or not.
At this day and age I really don’t care much about hoi jongs. I mean really it is nice that they meant something along time ago but really in todays times they are just openings.
I am also not sure how much they meant along time ago either as forms weren’t very important back then but rather techniques of the style.
[QUOTE=CLFNole;805286]I am also not sure how much they meant along time ago either as forms weren’t very important back then but rather techniques of the style.[/QUOTE]
So what is the essense in the technique of each lineage?
-Chan Hung Sing
-Chueng Hung Sing
-Buk Sing
Buk Sing is know for peen sun when attacking and chap. Chueng Hung Sing is know for sau. What about the Chan then?
before anyone starts jumping up and saying but its all clf…
for the fut san hung sing lineage around the world there are only a few schools existing outside fut san.
of course we got lau bun’s lineage in usa (yuen hai), Singapore HSK )lee Yan, and Chui Kwong Yuen’s Chan Ngau Sing lineage. now, within our lineages, we recognize techniques, but the sets are different. so, in our search to find what was supposed original fut san we began comparing and noting what is common between the lineages.
one thing we’ve agreed that amongst the three main forms of hung sing, there is one hoi jong which is found in all true hung sing and buk sing lineages. and thats part of the first few moves in the set being discussed.
not drumming up no issues, just pointing out to why the hoi jong is important to us.
and sorry clfnole, don’t take this wrong either…
but its cool you don’t care…some of us do…
in your LHK lineage, you know you are chan family. all the info you need on your lineage is right at your fingertips thanks to the past masters.
the fut san lineage is just now coming together after so long of a separation from the rest of us.
If our lineage didn’t second guess each other, we would never have discovered what was most likely original since nothing has changed since 1851.
so when folks start asking about which is fut san, and chan family…there is only a very few but silent people here that represent fut san hsk, aside from my loud mouth arse right?
all the rest are chan family…so when people ask about the differences you have to be open to hearing OUR side and then make your decision…don’t shoot it down cause you don’t care about it. some people actually do, and want to hear what is being said.
sometimes…
but i just wanted to make myself clear. sorry man.
Frank:
Its all good, I might have been a bit wrong in the way I said what I did. My FSU Seminoles lost last night so I have been a bit PO’d today. When I was reading your post and you said something like “no one has seen our (yours) hoi jong” I took it wrong.
I think all hoi jongs are important and I understand what it means to you its just I try not to get too caught up in things like that becuase it only makes you crazy in the end. We (LKH line) have 2 different hoi jongs as you know one more Chan and the other Jeong Yim.
I think when peple examine hoi jongs they all share similarities and differences but you will typically see the 3 bow sequence in some shape or form.
I hold each branch at the same level not one higher than another.
yeah i agree with you, but see, you have your lineage’s hoi jong, we now have discovered what may be the official old school fut san hoi jong shared by all true hung sing’s. the chan fam knows theirs…
see, in knowing our fut san hoi jong, it allowed me to see where buk sing placed their earmarks on the hoi jong we all have.
in the big scheme of things, it doesn’t matter. but when it comes to self identifying…it means the world…at least to me.
In that regard I see where you are coming from but it seems to me all kung fu has changed over the years to some degree and I would think the same has happened to hoi jongs as well.
actually, our fut san hoi jong hasn’t really changed much…you have to always allow some play room, but as you know our lau bun lineage is pretty old, and we’ve never had any outside contact, but to meet up with people who have virtually the same set opening as you when you thought no one else ever would is comforting to me.
not much has changed though…
I can see the sections of the form that look fut san, but when ever I have met, seen or competed against Sifu Hilbert’s students there CLF has always looked more wushu than Fut San to me. But then they have many forms I havent seen. That said I’ve always gotten along with them fine (CLF Yat Ga) I even judged the Vancouver Tiger Balm Wushu divisions with one of his senior students this year.
This is one of Sifu Hilbert’s students whom I judged in at the year’s Tiger Balm. He ended up taking under 18 traditional forms Grand Champion.
[QUOTE=stout;805168]hello,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zjdGr-Guhs
It doesn’t appear to me as just Chan, it looks there’s Cheung Yim or Buk Sing added as well. I have seen that in a few of Wong Ha’s students demo as well. Am I just confused?
Cheers
S[/QUOTE]
Hi everyone, I am the person performing in this video. Surprised that it’d be on a forum, didnt think ppl would even watch the video, lol! I have been practising Chan family CLF for over 10 years now and wushu for a lil over 5 years, and never been fortunate enough to learn other branches of CLF. Thanks to youtube, I am able to gain a bit of knowledge about the other Hung Sing and Buk Sing.
I am not sure which part of my form looks anything but Chan family, altho I am aware that other Chan family practitioners can look different from me as well. However, my background and foundation is Chan family CLF and then after many years, then I began my training in wushu. I have also heard from this forum that there’s some wushu mixed in there or that we have wushu influenced into our (Hilbert Yiu’s group) CLF forms. I can promise and guarantee that I, personally have not added any wushu movements into my modified Bagua Sum. Each movement that has been changed are from CLF basic techniques, including the side kick and the jumping Chang Fu (please excuse my translation, hehehe). But I am aware that there are wushu influences in my performances, and I tell you what they are in my opinion: head snaps, longer pauses (but that’s cuz i’m outta shape as well, lol). These are the only wushu essenses that i’ve added to my CLF, everything else belongs to my clf training.
Please let me know if you disagree with what i’ve said and let’s exchange knowledge and perhaps, we can learn something from each other. This is not an open invitation for debates or arguments, cause I’ve seen some pretty heated arguments in here and I know it can get outta hand with some people (you know who you are, hehehe), and I’d like to avoid that. I’m open for suggestions and improvement of my CLF training and if possible, make a few friends in CLF.
Thanks,
Gwa_Sau_Chap
Nelson from Vancouver, Canada
Hey Nelson, good on you dude!
Have we met, are you Sifu Hilbert’s student I was emailing with on youtube? If so I’ll get off my arse and send you those vids.
Either way, didn’t mean to insinuate that your CLF was wushu, just that the performance style of the studets I’ve seen from your school has an obvious Wushu flavour to it. As you pointed out as well right?
Cheers Bro, 