[QUOTE=Graham H;1267479]So in your ways what does Tan, Fook and Bong specifically train in SLT? What is it’s purpose? Why practice them repetetively and slowly? Especially fook sau.[/QUOTE]
That’s for you to find out within three to six months of SLT training. 
Take care,
[QUOTE=Ali. R;1267480]That’s for you to find out within three to six months of SLT training.
Take care,[/QUOTE]
I know exactly why “i” practice these things but the reasons why across the lineages mostly contradict each other. maybe you could offer your opinion as well as Joy. After all they are most important and maybe we could benefit from your years of mastery!
[QUOTE=Graham H;1267479]So in your ways what does Tan, Fook and Bong specifically train in SLT? What is it’s purpose? Why practice them repetetively and slowly? Especially fook sau.[/QUOTE]
Tan , bong, Fook, and kei Are the basic four motion to cover the receiving and sending handling of the x y z axis or + in front of one’s center line. Train slowly to buildup force flow path and force flow in and out from the ground. Fook or any move, train Gradually is to make sure the handling of receivng and sending is even, effecient, and continous.
The emei snake slide worm move technology of joints handling is core of making this happen.
A great crystal clear top down designed, when see it as it is .
Repetition helps in the embedding of the skills. Doing the first section slowly helps develop CONTROL over every aspect of the motions.
The transitions from tan, fok and bong helps control the flow of hand motions around you in protecting the body and mounting the attacks.
Of course there is much more to this.
Sure one can fight without knowing forms but the forms are the gates to the wing chun way of doing it.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1267482]Tan , bong, Fook, and kei Are the basic four motion to cover the receiving and sending handling of the x y z axis or + in front of one’s center line. Train slowly to buildup force flow path and force flow in and out from the ground. Gradually is to make sure the handling of receivng and sending is even effecient, and continous.
The emei snake slide worm move technology of joints handling is core of making this happen.
A great crystal clear top down designed, when see it as it is .[/QUOTE]
What do they send and receive? You are saying that Bong, Tan and Fook receive oncoming punches? Really? 
So why only one Tan and three Fook in the beginning? Fook recieves more punches?! :eek:
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1267483]
The transitions from tan, fok and bong helps control the flow of hand motions around you in protecting the body and mounting the attacks.
Of course there is much more to this.[/QUOTE]
So in your way they are for blocking punches?
[QUOTE=Graham H;1267485]So in your way they are for blocking punches?[/QUOTE]
Wck receive and send, block punch are not primary alternative
[QUOTE=Graham H;1267484]What do they send and receive? You are saying that Bong, Tan and Fook receive oncoming punches? Really?
So why only one Tan and three Fook in the beginning? Fook recieves more punches?! :eek::D[/QUOTE]
Read Gm Ipman interview on his description of wck .
The same wck him or me,
I am only filling the gap on how to get there with emei 12 zhuang technology in the SNT design.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1267485]So in your way they are for blocking punches?[/QUOTE]
Not just blocking punches, but; “Yut Fook Yee” or “Da”.
Take care,
[QUOTE=Graham H;1267473]How can you say that? It seems slight contradictive to me.
That’s like saying that a young child does not need a Teacher or to learn their ABC’s. Sound learning processes are not just to do with Ving Tsun. It is a necessity of life and all humans need it otherwise the world would be a very different place.
The evolution of Ving Tsun has adopted a method of learning and we do that via the forms and interim drills. Humans have been fighting way before any MA doctrines were invented but they needed to create, learn, preserve and maintain the system.That’s the way it is.
No need for it???[/QUOTE]
I agree with Graham. Even boxing has “forms” to an extent. IMHO, western boxing trains forms in a San Sik format. Every time a boxer drills a combination of 3 movements that is essentially a San Sik. They learn the basic combos like “jab, cross, hook” and then work it on the pads, against the heavy bag, and with a partner.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1267473]How can you say that? It seems slight contradictive to me.
That’s like saying that a young child does not need a Teacher or to learn their ABC’s. Sound learning processes are not just to do with Ving Tsun. It is a necessity of life and all humans need it otherwise the world would be a very different place.
The evolution of Ving Tsun has adopted a method of learning and we do that via the forms and interim drills. Humans have been fighting way before any MA doctrines were invented but they needed to create, learn, preserve and maintain the system.That’s the way it is.
No need for it???[/QUOTE]
Nope, no need for forms.
There are many MA that don’t use forms like SLT in their development and training and their practitioners do quitter well for themselves.
To suggest that WC needs any form is to suggest that it is inferior to any MA that doesn’t require them.
I am sure WC was WC before SLT came to be, I don’t think that the creator(s) of WC developed SLT or any form and THEN developed WC.
That said, like I mentioned, if a form that was developed for a system is use din the way that it was intended, then it will be beneficial for that system.
[QUOTE=KPM;1267491]I agree with Graham. Even boxing has “forms” to an extent. IMHO, western boxing trains forms in a San Sik format. Every time a boxer drills a combination of 3 movements that is essentially a San Sik. They learn the basic combos like “jab, cross, hook” and then work it on the pads, against the heavy bag, and with a partner.[/QUOTE]
SLT, or any prearranged/pre-choreographed form is nothing like the “forms” in boxing and you know that.
What makes boxing “shadow boxing forms” beneficial to boxers is that they are NOT prearranged or prechoreagraphed BUT that they flow from the fighter without any set predetermined sequence.
Not just blocking punches…for hand structures and their applications for wing chun approach to martial development.
Hands have to be coordinated with body structure and footwork embedded in chum kiu, biu jee, mok jong, kwan
and bot jam do. Its all put together for development- and put into dan chi sao, poon sao, luk sao, lop sao, gor sao.
lat sao, man sao and related two person timing drills. All this for development. It is not fighting itself.
If you have to fight- you fight
[QUOTE=Minghequan;1267451]There has been a lot of discussion here about Siu Nim Tao (; xio liàn tóu) on the forum lately.
As a bit of an outsider looking in I wonder if the Siu Lim Tao Form is enough?
Do you really need the other forms or is Siu Nim Tao enough to truly master Wing Chun?[/QUOTE]
Depends on which linage you are speaking about, in the Yik Kam linage it is because the concepts and ideas of all 3 empty hands sets are imbeded in their SLT set. In the 3 set system, no it’s only the foundation form.
[QUOTE=Minghequan;1267451]Should the form be done at great speed and strength (like some forms of Wing Chun) or should it be softer, fluid (like Snake Crane Wing Chun for example)?
Which is better in your opinion and why?
In my Zhenlan Minghequan, we follow the adage of “Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fluid & Fast” ()[/QUOTE]
Besides what Hendrik already mentioned, I have seen the form done with different emphasis.
I remember Ho Kam Ming teaching the form with dynamic tension to re-enforce structure.
Fung Keung does it smooth and slow with a soft emphasis to cultivate chi
And others do it with Ging with a fighting emphasis.
[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1267501]Depends on which linage you are speaking about, in the Yik Kam linage it is because the concepts and ideas of all 3 empty hands sets are imbeded in their SLT set. In the 3 set system, no it’s only the foundation form.
Besides what Hendrik already mentioned, I have seen the form done with different emphasis.
I remember Ho Kam Ming teaching the form with dynamic tension to re-enforce structure.
Navin: ((Not really. Dynamic tension is not the right description.. Correct and balanced movement IMO))Joy
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1267497]SLT, or any prearranged/pre-choreographed form is nothing like the “forms” in boxing and you know that.
What makes boxing “shadow boxing forms” beneficial to boxers is that they are NOT prearranged or prechoreagraphed BUT that they flow from the fighter without any set predetermined sequence.[/QUOTE]
Are you saying that combinations of 3 moves are not “predetermined?” If a fighter has a series of combo’s to work on like Jab/Cross/Hook, Jab/Jab/Cross, or Hook/Cross/Hook are those not “predetermined”? Maybe you are unaware of what makes a San Sik. But in the Wing Chun I train there is no long SLT form. There are San Siks of approximately 3 moves each. They are trained much like boxing combinations and are considered short “forms.”
[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1267501]Depends on which linage you are speaking about, in the Yik Kam linage it is because the concepts and ideas of all 3 empty hands sets are imbeded in their SLT set. In the 3 set system, no it’s only the foundation form.
Besides what Hendrik already mentioned, I have seen the form done with different emphasis.
Ho Kam ming does not do Charles Atlas dynamic tension- just controlled motion and structure.
No comment on YKor Fung. There are many lineages. Each to his own.
I try- don’t always succeed in discussing labels and definitions or atleasst arguing about them.
Boxing has combinations of techniques-- not really forms. But jabs, hooks, cross, uppercuts
result in many permutations and combinations of punches- within refereed rules.
In what I do there are single hand and double hand san sik motions…in varying possible sequences.
I dont call them forms.
Traditional way or one own intepletation way
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1267502]Navin: ((Not really. Dynamic tension is not the right description.. Correct and balanced movement IMO)) Ho Kam ming does not do Charles Atlas dynamic tension- just controlled motion and structure.[/QUOTE]
I agree joy, dynamic tension was the closest discription I could think of to explain the tension used to maintain controlled motion structure.