In another thread HumWCGuy said his lineage of WC did not do chi sao?
Can you have WC without doing chi sao?
If some would consider it to not be “true” WC, I am comfortable with that. I tend to refer to it as non-classical WC to differentiate.
[QUOTE=faxiapreta;1116681]In another thread HumWCGuy said his lineage of WC did not do chi sao?
Can you have WC without doing chi sao?[/QUOTE]
chi-sao is the soul of the vt. Force exchanges, facing with mindless arms at lightning speeds. Try facing a guy with 25+ years of vt chi sao versus none…
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1116685]chi-sao is the soul of the vt. Force exchanges, facing with mindless arms at lightning speeds. Try facing a guy with 25+ years of vt chi sao versus none…[/QUOTE]
The few times that I have sparred with classical WC guys, I didn’t notice anything special in their abilities compared to mine. There is nothing wrong with that style of training, it’s just not how we do it.
[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;1116683]If some would consider it to not be “true” WC, I am comfortable with that. I tend to refer to it as non-classical WC to differentiate.[/QUOTE]
Which lineage is that? JKD?
[QUOTE=faxiapreta;1116681]In another thread HumWCGuy said his lineage of WC did not do chi sao?
Can you have WC without doing chi sao?[/QUOTE]
Of course, WC is NOT only chisao and no system is so weak as to be dependent on one type of training exercise.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1116719]Of course, WC is NOT only chisao and no system is so weak as to be dependent on one type of training exercise.[/QUOTE]
are you sure…
[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;1116690]The few times that I have sparred with classical WC guys, I didn’t notice anything special in their abilities compared to mine. There is nothing wrong with that style of training, it’s just not how we do it.[/QUOTE]
Its more about what your doing it for…which drastically changes the fighter.
[QUOTE=Frost;1116730]are you sure…[/QUOTE]
If by chisao you mean the training drill, yes I am sure that WC would still be WC without the drill.
The principles and attributes can be trained a different way.
Again, no system is so weak and inferiour as to be dependent on ONE training drill to define what it is.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1116736]If by chisao you mean the training drill, yes I am sure that WC would still be WC without the drill.
The principles and attributes can be trained a different way.
Again, no system is so weak and inferiour as to be dependent on ONE training drill to define what it is.[/QUOTE]
and yet someone on this very thread called it the soul of VT, sounds to me like they feel it cant be taken out and it wont survive if it was
[QUOTE=Frost;1116739]and yet someone on this very thread called it the soul of VT, sounds to me like they feel it cant be taken out and it wont survive if it was[/QUOTE]
And Kevin is entitled to his opinion.
He may be wrong or he may be right.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1116731]Its more about what your doing it for…which drastically changes the fighter.[/QUOTE]
Even though we don’t emphasize chi sao, early on when we sparred (intra school) it would devolve into chi sao like battles because the techniques are the techniques. The thing that I noticed is that resisting the urge to “play Wing Chun,” with people raised my effectiveness.
It’s my opinon that for Chi Sao to transfer to combat as it is sometimes done, someone has to agree to, “play Wing Chun.” Now I don’t want to generalize to every lineage or school because i have only experienced, JKD, VTM, Dr. Wu’s guys out of Columbus?, and Unknown (Darrell Jordan’s guy?).
Edit: I am certainly interested in your thoughts since you have such an opposing view point.
To each his own, but I find it IMO next to impossible for someone to figure out how to connect to their opponents center(not their arms) without Chi Sao development which really is what WC is all about. Disruption of the opponents center while maintaining your own.
I’ve always been of the belief that there’s two types of WC out there. One that is just Kung Fu utilizing arm techniques and attacks, really no different from any other style, and then there is one that utilizes structure where your only goal is to attack and “blocking” is only the result of the attack. The latter can’t be developed to it’s potential without Chi Sao…
A thread started by a troll. Don’t feed the trolls.!!
JC
[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;1116763]Even though we don’t emphasize chi sao, early on when we sparred (intra school) it would devolve into chi sao like battles because the techniques are the techniques. The thing that I noticed is that resisting the urge to “play Wing Chun,” with people raised my effectiveness.
It’s my opinon that for Chi Sao to transfer to combat as it is sometimes done, someone has to agree to, “play Wing Chun.” Now I don’t want to generalize to every lineage or school because i have only experienced, JKD, VTM, Dr. Wu’s guys out of Columbus?, and Unknown (Darrell Jordan’s guy?).
Edit: I am certainly interested in your thoughts since you have such an opposing view point.[/QUOTE]
I understand why you could fight better when you didnt play chi-sao, you probably just tried to hit the guy right ?
we dont do chi-sao to fight…
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1116885]I understand why you could fight better when you didnt play chi-sao, you probably just tried to hit the guy right ?
we dont do chi-sao to fight…[/QUOTE]
It’s a little more than that. Remember we didn’t do any chi sao. If you follow the WC principles to perfection, sparring will come out that way. It was more about moving beyond being basic.
You can have WC without chi sao if you can have WC without forms, or without the wooden dummy.
Question of definition IMO.
[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;1116896]It’s a little more than that. Remember we didn’t do any chi sao. If you follow the WC principles to perfection, sparring will come out that way. It was more about moving beyond being basic.[/QUOTE]
lost you there…anyway, show a clip time 
[QUOTE=WC1277;1116851]To each his own, but I find it IMO next to impossible for someone to figure out how to connect to their opponents center(not their arms) without Chi Sao development which really is what WC is all about. Disruption of the opponents center while maintaining your own.
[/QUOTE]
You really don’t need chi sao to learn this. chi sao can be a valuable tool but there are other methods that i feel are far more direct.