People have asked me what lineage I come from. Who cares? Why does it matter? All everyone needs to know iz that there is good Wing chun and sh*tty wing Chun. I dont care about Leung Ting, William Cheung, Yip Man, Yip Chun lineage.
I don’t know my WC lineage either. I know my teacher’s teacher; but beyond that, I don’t know. IMO, not knowing your lineage is not as important as knowing whether your WC works or not.
It may be good knowing your lineage. But does it make your WC any better?
With the multitude of WC instructors out there, there are those, unfortunately, who are fakers and frauds.
Whilst lineage is no guarantee of quality, it can help a beginner to choose between those who have legitimate training and those who dont.
There are many instructors out there for whom lineage is unimportant, as they feel, with some justification, that their skills and ability speak for themselves.
But there are just as many who ignore lineage because they fear investigations into their qualifications to teach.
There are also those who say they are students of well-known grandmasters to bolster their claim to be teaching the ‘real’ wing chun! Searching on the internet shows you a good example of this. For example: how many students of grandmaster Yip Chun are there meant to be? And how many of them speak fluent Cantonese as he speaks no English!
I think having a lineage is important, but only so far as how it can hep your training. If you have a question, and your Sifu can’t answer it, who can he turn to? His Sifu right. But if he has broken away, then who? No one - so there is no answer (unless he can figure out on his own). Then the system already has a flaw…how many other things will happen if you have no background/greater experience to fall back on?
just my thoughts,
david
good lineage is important
I believe having a good lineage is very important. I used to think that it didn’t matter. But, in order to get the details that will refine your martial art that will take you to higher levels, a good lineage is an absolute must. Also, to begin to work on the fine points earlier on prevent bad habits from occuring. It is not always easy to rid oneself of bad habits. Also, being around an instructor from a good lineage helps imprint in your mind what excellence is.
Obviously, a good lineage is not a gaurentee of high level skill. But, without it, I believe it is (near) impossible. Why waste time and money and figure all out when you’re very old, when you can spend time with someone who can help take you there sooner?
Marty
good marketing = good lineage
Lineage is like a chain and a chain always break at it’s weakest link! Most of the times there is a weak link anyway. Your Sifu should be the strongest link for you. If your Sigung is or was the greatest master there is or was is not that important.It is your Sifu who’s teaching you. Can he teach or is he only a badass?
“lineage doesn’t matter” is a thing some one says to make them feel better about there ****y lineage, thats y u dont see anyone with a good one saying stuff like that.
And by “good” lineage i mean TST.
What makes TST’s lineage good?
Yip maN -> TST-> sifu lit -> Me
Because I’m in it
(Not in a negative way) I too am also interested to hear what makes TST’s lineage (or any other lineage) good…but going over what one thinks are bad/good about each lineage could turn ugly…
IMO, Old jong is right, lineage doesn’t matter as much as the sifu you have.
Is lineage important? IMO - yes and no.
Yes -
IMO, I think it’s important to know what you are learning, who it came from and how it got passed along. If you are happy with the source interpretation of the art, then it is probably a good idea to get as close to it as possible.
No -
IMO, I think there are some pretty bad representations of just about every lineage which can also be poor from the start. Sorry!
Also, lineage is a very good marketing tool even for people who have studied for only a week and a day. I could tell you that “Yes, I’ve studied in Harvard”, but may have been a very poor student or a dropout, or even worse - the janitor.
In the end?
Find something that you’re convinced works.
And then find someone who can teach you how and why it works.
The rest is up to you and your common sense to figure out. And from my experience - better sooner than later, cause later usually consists of a long period of kicking your own ass!
Originally posted by CanadianBadAss
[B]Yip maN -> TST-> sifu lit -> Me
Because I’m in it [/B]
What does your sifu think about that?
Old Jong has inspired the poet in me..
Lineage like tree
Can have more than three…people
If one branch break
Tree, still leaves to make.
Whipping hand…
What does your sifu think about that?
What do you think about that?
If its dodgy leave it.
I think when there is smoke there is fire. There are some big names that have so much negativity around them you cant help but suspect some of it is true.
I think a lineage is crap if:
- the starter of it claims to be Yip Mans favourite student.
- the originator of it claims they were the only ones who learnt the true W.C
- the originator claims that they are Yip Mans successor and thus the ‘Grand Master’ of the system.
- if they have millions of vidoes and books on the shelves.
This is one sure fire way to know if your lineage is crap.
Yip Man apparently only taught 4 people the complete system, that means everyone else must be filling in the gaps from what they have seen.
You’re a poet Whippinghand
I did not realise I could be your “Muse”!..
Are you hiding something from us whip…EH ?:rolleyes:
Oh!..BTW,is that your poetry I see there ?
Yip Man apparently only taught 4 people the complete system, that means everyone else must be filling in the gaps from what they have seen.
Who are these four people surposed to be.
Even if that is true what would stop other people learning the complete system from these 4 then teaching it to others.
Yeah of course they would have taught others. Im talking about all the people who have come straight from Yip Man. In an interview with Wong Shun Leung, he said that Yip Man told him he had only taught the knives to only 4 people. He said he knew who they were but didnt want to say for fear of embarrassing others that teach it. This isnt the first time I had heard about that.
One can only speculate who they would be but some names that come up repeatedly are Leung Seung, Wong Sheung Leung, Chu Shong Tin, Lok Yu, Moy Yat. These peoples W.C history can not be disputed. Leung Sheung was Yips first student, Chu shong Tin lived with Yip Man for a while, Wong Shun Leung was the longest training student and taught Yip Mans classes, and I dont know much about Lok yu and Moy Yat.
One interesting thing that these people have in common is how they have never claimed to be the successor of yip man or inheritor of the system. And it also seems there hasnt been any internal conflict from there own students from most of them.
And they are definitely not the ones who have made the most noise in the W.C community.
who did ip ching and ip chun learn the complete system from