If you had to distill Northern Mantis into just 6 sets, which 6 would you pick and why?
Also, what are the oldest known Mantis sets?
I don’t know that I would consider this the distillation of mantis, but the 6 I would keep are.
Beng Bu
Tong Long Tao Toe
Yi Lo Zhai Yao
Tong Long Chu Dong
Tong Long Kwei Ding
Yu Hai (5 Master Combined Fist WUSHU)
And I am going to include a 7th just to have a weapon set
Tong Long Ba Fa Sheung Shou Gin
Wushu Sets Are U Kidding Me???
The Six Mantis Sets I would Chose
The six sets I would choose that define my mantis style (CCK Tai Chi Mantis are)
-
Bung Bu- Crushing Step, The first Northern mantis set created by Wang Lang
and the set that influenced all mantis material -
Bah Zhao- Eight Elbows- This set is very long and is usually taught in two
parts. It focuses on the correct usage of elbow strikes. -
Lan Jie Chuan- Intercepting and Deflecting Fist. This set expands on what
is learned in Bung Bu and Bah Zhao and concentrates on in
close fighting. -
Lien Her Zhang- Six Harmony Palm. This set focuses on developmental
Northern Kung fu Skills, such as tornado kicks, broom
sweeps, and the scissors kick. -
Yin Shou Gwan- Yin Hand Stick. This is the first staff set taught and it is
a very useful and practical set. It is traditional mantis
material not contemporary Wushu. -
Bagua Lan Mun Dao- Guarding the Door Broadsword in Eight Directions.
This set is also supposedly created by Wang Lang
and teaches the broadsword techniques that he was
famous for.
Sincerely,
Steve
[QUOTE=Mantis_Reborn;856161]Wushu Sets Are U Kidding Me???[/QUOTE]
No.
Yu Hai and Kwei Ding are badass when performed correctly.
Just cause its new doesn’t make it bad.
It was all new at one time or another.
Of course a lot of the Yu Hai sets I see performed at tourneys are quite watered down compared to the original version. And I could see not being interested in them. The version we perform is very traditional in flavor tho, and a **** good workout.
Just wondering, Royal Dragon, why you picked the number 6?
I’ve read that the three original Mantis sets were bengbu, luanjie, and bazhou. Mantis108 has another interesting theory concerning Mishou, but I don’t remember much, nor am I an expert on it. He would be THE mantis guy to ask!
Take your wushu sets to the street and see what you get!!!
I didn’t say wushu was bad, just not for real combat,
Wushu belongs in a protected environment, just like the point fighting, not used in real combat situations, its pretty and looks nice.. The 7 star mantis i live by works in real combat situations.
[QUOTE=Psycho Mantis;856321]No.
Yu Hai and Kwei Ding are badass when performed correctly.
Just cause its new doesn’t make it bad.
It was all new at one time or another.
Of course a lot of the Yu Hai sets I see performed at tourneys are quite watered down compared to the original version. And I could see not being interested in them. The version we perform is very traditional in flavor tho, and a **** good workout.[/QUOTE]
Puyot List
Royal Dragon
That is a question I asked myself about 20 Years ago. Over time, as I developed the answer changed a bit. I will give you my current list and what I think is most productive for me. I only play these sets.
Bung Bu – The original mantis form and what I believe is physical manifestation of the 12 Character formula.
Lan Jit – The original form that I suspect might in some form pre-date bung bu and possibly mantis. The application of the ridged and flexible methods.
Between these two forms (some say the only forms Li San Jin taught) You have the core theory and techniques of mantis. I understand the mantis system has expanded form that time however I do not view this as a productive change.
Just one more opinion.
Side note: I do like the form “Stipulation Boxing” that was created recently and is said to be a true summary form.
[QUOTE=Mantis_Reborn;856484]Take your wushu sets to the street and see what you get!!![/QUOTE]
LOL
Take your beng bo to teh str33ts and see what you get!!!
Mantis, 7 star in particular, has so many sets, that throwing in a wushu set isn’t going to hurt anything. Distilling it to 6 sets is like saying, If you could distill the alphabet into 3 letters, what 3 would you choose. DDD.
Mei Hua Lu
Beng Bu
Luan Jie
you want real sets?
- Sup Sei Lo Tam Toy Kuen – 14 Routes Tams Kicking Maneuvers
- Gung Lek Kuen - Strength exertion form
- Bung Bo Kuen – Collapse Step Form
- Sup Ba Sao Kuen – 18 Elders
5.Dar Gong Kuen – Avoiding Hardness form - Chaap Choy - Stabbing Fist
7.Hak Fu Gow Cha Kuen – Black Tiger Inter Sectional - Bak Yuen Chut Dung – White Ape Comes Out Of The Cave
- Bak Yuen Tau Toe – White Ape Steals The Peach
- Tong Long Chut Dung – Mantis Comes Out Of The Cave
- Tong Long Tau Toe – Mantis Steals The Peach
- Muy Fa Sao Kuen – Plum Blossom Hand
- Muy Fa Lok Kuen – Plum Blossom Falling Fist
- Muy Fa Kuen – Plum Blossom Fist
- Sei Lau Bun Da Kuen – 4 Roads Quick Hitting
- Dai Fan Che Kuen – Big (expanded) Spinning Wheel (revolution) Form
- Siu Fan Che Kuen – Small (contracted) Revolution Form
- Dai Ga Sik – Big Aggressive Boxing
- Siu Ga Sik – Small Aggressive Boxing
- Yat Lo Jak Yiu Kuen – First Route Essential Techniques (extrapolation)
- Yee Lo Jak Yiu Kuen – Second Route Extrapolation Form
- Saam Lo Jak Yiu Kuen – Third Route Extrapolation Form
- Yau Ling Jang – Soft Energy Elbow
- Yau Ling Jeung – Soft Energy Palm
- Yau Ling Kuen – Soft Energy Fist
- Yau Ling Toy – Soft Energy Kicks
- Yau Loong Jeung – Swimming Dragon Palm (lit. flexible dragon)
- Lan Jeet Kuen – Interception Boxing
- Yat Lo Muy Fa Toy – First Route Plum Blossom Leg (kicks)
- Yee Lo Muy Fa Toy – Second Route Plum Blossom Leg (kicks)
- Muy Fa Fei Toy – Plum Blossom Flying Kicks
- Yat Lo Tong Long Sao – First Route Mantis Hands
- Yee Lo Tong Long Sao – Second Route Tong Long Sao
- Fei Ngan Jeung – Flying Goose Palm
- Muy Fa Jeung – Plum Blossom Palm
- Joy Lo Han Kuen – Drunken Lohan From
- Lin Wan Gam Tao – Continuous Brocade Weaving
- Dahn Chaap Fa – Singe Flower Arrangement (lit. stabbing flowers)
- Seung Chaap Fa – Double Flower Arrangement
- Dai Fu Ngan Kuen – Big Tiger and Goose Form
- Siu Fu Ngan – Small Tiger and Goose Form
- Tong Long Bo Suen – Mantis Whirling Step
- Yat Lo Bak Yuen Kwai Yin Kuen – First Route White Ape Secretly Watches Banquet
- Yee Lo Bak Yuen Kwai Yin – Second Route White Ape Secretly Watches Banquet
- Yat Lo Baat Jang – First Route 8 Dominant Elbows
- Yee Lo Baat Jang – Second Route 8 Dominant Elbows
- Yat Lo Lok Ying Jeung – First Route Descending Eagle Palm
- Yee Lo Lok Ying Jeung – Second Route Descending Eagle Palm
- Yee Lo Hak Fu Gow Cha Kuen – Second Route Black Tiger Cross Path (intersectional)
- Hak Fu Chut Dung – Black Tiger Comes Out Of The Cave
- Hak Fu Tau Sum – Black Tiger Steals The Heart
- Yat Lo Muy Fa Yau Loong Jeung – First Route Plum Blossom Swimming Dragon Palm
- Yee Lo Muy Fa Yau Loong Jeung – Second Route Plum Blossom Swimming Dragon Palm
- Chuen Wan Jeung – Cloud Thrust Palm
- Hoy Au Kuen – Seagull Fist
- Seung San Fu - Tiger Ascends the Mountain
- Ha San Fu – Tiger Descends the Mountain
- Yin Ji Chuen Lum – Swallow Penetrates the Forest
- Muy Fa Ba Kik – Plum Blossom 8 Ultimates
- Tong Long Ba Gwa Bo – 8 Diagram Step (longest form in the system)
- Joy Bo Tong Long – Drunken Step Mantis
- Yat Lo Tong Long Lin Wan Jak Yiu Sao – 1ST Route Continuous and Returning Extrapolation Hands
- Yee Lo Tong Long Lin Wan Jak Yiu Sao – 2ND Route Continuous and Returning Extapolation Hands
64.Yat Lo Bak Yuen Bok Dau – 1ST Route White Ape Bows North - Yee Lo Bak Yuen Bok Dau – 2ND Route White Ape Bows North
- Sup Ba Lo Han Gung – 18 Section Lo Han Chi Gung
- Lin Wan Noy Gung – Continuous and Returning Inner Energy
- Luk Lek Kuen – 6 Powers Fist
- Gong Yau San Gung – Hard and Soft Energy Training
- Tong Long Chut sing Bo
- Noy Gung Fook Fu Kuen - Subduing Tiger internal form
- Damo Yi Jin Jing - Damo’s muscle change classic
[QUOTE=Psycho Mantis;856501]LOL
Take your beng bo to teh str33ts and see what you get!!!
Mantis, 7 star in particular, has so many sets, that throwing in a wushu set isn’t going to hurt anything. Distilling it to 6 sets is like saying, If you could distill the alphabet into 3 letters, what 3 would you choose. DDD.
[/QUOTE]
I agreed with Sifu Puyot that the list could change over time due to experiences. In fact that’s why you would have a situation of senior students having different materials then the junior students from different period. In the case of CCK TCPM, this is particularly true. For example, Xiao Fan Che and few other forms are missing in the “final” curriculum of GM Chiu. What is the reason to drop them? We could only speculate. But the fact remains that he picked 10 hand forms as the structure of his finally version.
Regardless of the number of forms in the system, one thing is certain. I was told by GM Chiu personally, and this is affirmed recently by my mentor Galen Fok also, that the 64 Sau Fa (Shou Fa) A.K.A. Taizu Duanda is without question the essence of CCK TCPM.
Personally, I have come to formulate a summary of my Tanglangquan experience based mainly on the CCK TCPM material.
foundation:
Qi Shou
Xiao Fan Che
Wu Shou Chui & Liu He Zhang (could replace with Bengbu)
Core:
Ba Duan Jin (8 pieces of brocade) and/or 18 Louhan
Lanjie & Bazhou (as one unbroken form)
Di Tanglang (ground mantis - optional)
Shaolin Fo Zhuang (Wooden Dummy)
2 men & applications
Pi Zha Wu Shou
Pai An
Taizu Duanda
Mantis108
[QUOTE=taichi4eva;856363]Just wondering, Royal Dragon, why you picked the number 6?
I’ve read that the three original Mantis sets were bengbu, luanjie, and bazhou. Mantis108 has another interesting theory concerning Mishou, but I don’t remember much, nor am I an expert on it. He would be THE mantis guy to ask![/QUOTE]
Reply]
Actually I originally thought just 3, but I figured other’s might not feel that is enough.
What is Taizu Duanda?
Any clips online?
Hey RD, question:
Why did you choose the term “distill”?
Why not “streamline” or even simplify?
I don’t really know. I am distilling rice wine this week, maybe the word is on my brain?
[QUOTE=Royal Dragon;856564]I don’t really know. I am distilling rice wine this week, maybe the word is on my brain?[/QUOTE]
Distill means to make weaker, less potent…
Hmm, then why does my wine become flamable after I distill it down to almost pure alcohol?
Distilling separates the heavier material, from the lighter. when you distill wine for instance, you are separating the lighter functional ingredients (alcohol), from the heavier filler fluids (water, left over fermentations etc…). This makes a super concentrated drink that can run a car engine.
[QUOTE=Royal Dragon;856572]Hmm, then why does my wine become flamable after I distill it down to almost pure alcohol?
Distilling separates the heavier material, from the lighter. when you distill wine for instance, you are separating the lighter functional ingredients (alcohol), from the heavier filler fluids (water, left over fermentations etc…). This makes a super concentrated drink that can run a car engine.[/QUOTE]
LOL !
Dude, sorry for the brain ****, I saw Distill and though DILUTE !
I am an a-hole !
:eek:
[QUOTE=Mantis_Reborn;856529]you want real sets?
- Sup Sei Lo Tam Toy Kuen 14 Routes Tams Kicking Maneuvers
- Gung Lek Kuen - Strength exertion form
- Bung Bo Kuen Collapse Step Form
- Sup Ba Sao Kuen 18 Elders
5.Dar Gong Kuen Avoiding Hardness form - Chaap Choy - Stabbing Fist
7.Hak Fu Gow Cha Kuen Black Tiger Inter Sectional - Bak Yuen Chut Dung White Ape Comes Out Of The Cave
- Bak Yuen Tau Toe White Ape Steals The Peach
- Tong Long Chut Dung Mantis Comes Out Of The Cave
- Tong Long Tau Toe Mantis Steals The Peach
- Muy Fa Sao Kuen Plum Blossom Hand
- Muy Fa Lok Kuen Plum Blossom Falling Fist
- Muy Fa Kuen Plum Blossom Fist
- Sei Lau Bun Da Kuen 4 Roads Quick Hitting
- Dai Fan Che Kuen Big (expanded) Spinning Wheel (revolution) Form
- Siu Fan Che Kuen Small (contracted) Revolution Form
- Dai Ga Sik Big Aggressive Boxing
- Siu Ga Sik Small Aggressive Boxing
- Yat Lo Jak Yiu Kuen First Route Essential Techniques (extrapolation)
- Yee Lo Jak Yiu Kuen Second Route Extrapolation Form
- Saam Lo Jak Yiu Kuen Third Route Extrapolation Form
- Yau Ling Jang Soft Energy Elbow
- Yau Ling Jeung Soft Energy Palm
- Yau Ling Kuen Soft Energy Fist
- Yau Ling Toy Soft Energy Kicks
- Yau Loong Jeung Swimming Dragon Palm (lit. flexible dragon)
- Lan Jeet Kuen Interception Boxing
- Yat Lo Muy Fa Toy First Route Plum Blossom Leg (kicks)
- Yee Lo Muy Fa Toy Second Route Plum Blossom Leg (kicks)
- Muy Fa Fei Toy Plum Blossom Flying Kicks
- Yat Lo Tong Long Sao First Route Mantis Hands
- Yee Lo Tong Long Sao Second Route Tong Long Sao
- Fei Ngan Jeung Flying Goose Palm
- Muy Fa Jeung Plum Blossom Palm
- Joy Lo Han Kuen Drunken Lohan From
- Lin Wan Gam Tao Continuous Brocade Weaving
- Dahn Chaap Fa Singe Flower Arrangement (lit. stabbing flowers)
- Seung Chaap Fa Double Flower Arrangement
- Dai Fu Ngan Kuen Big Tiger and Goose Form
- Siu Fu Ngan Small Tiger and Goose Form
- Tong Long Bo Suen Mantis Whirling Step
- Yat Lo Bak Yuen Kwai Yin Kuen First Route White Ape Secretly Watches Banquet
- Yee Lo Bak Yuen Kwai Yin Second Route White Ape Secretly Watches Banquet
- Yat Lo Baat Jang First Route 8 Dominant Elbows
- Yee Lo Baat Jang Second Route 8 Dominant Elbows
- Yat Lo Lok Ying Jeung First Route Descending Eagle Palm
- Yee Lo Lok Ying Jeung Second Route Descending Eagle Palm
- Yee Lo Hak Fu Gow Cha Kuen Second Route Black Tiger Cross Path (intersectional)
- Hak Fu Chut Dung Black Tiger Comes Out Of The Cave
- Hak Fu Tau Sum Black Tiger Steals The Heart
- Yat Lo Muy Fa Yau Loong Jeung First Route Plum Blossom Swimming Dragon Palm
- Yee Lo Muy Fa Yau Loong Jeung Second Route Plum Blossom Swimming Dragon Palm
- Chuen Wan Jeung Cloud Thrust Palm
- Hoy Au Kuen Seagull Fist
- Seung San Fu - Tiger Ascends the Mountain
- Ha San Fu Tiger Descends the Mountain
- Yin Ji Chuen Lum Swallow Penetrates the Forest
- Muy Fa Ba Kik Plum Blossom 8 Ultimates
- Tong Long Ba Gwa Bo 8 Diagram Step (longest form in the system)
- Joy Bo Tong Long Drunken Step Mantis
- Yat Lo Tong Long Lin Wan Jak Yiu Sao 1ST Route Continuous and Returning Extrapolation Hands
- Yee Lo Tong Long Lin Wan Jak Yiu Sao 2ND Route Continuous and Returning Extapolation Hands
64.Yat Lo Bak Yuen Bok Dau 1ST Route White Ape Bows North - Yee Lo Bak Yuen Bok Dau 2ND Route White Ape Bows North
- Sup Ba Lo Han Gung 18 Section Lo Han Chi Gung
- Lin Wan Noy Gung Continuous and Returning Inner Energy
- Luk Lek Kuen 6 Powers Fist
- Gong Yau San Gung Hard and Soft Energy Training
- Tong Long Chut sing Bo
- Noy Gung Fook Fu Kuen - Subduing Tiger internal form
- Damo Yi Jin Jing - Damo’s muscle change classic[/QUOTE]
Thank you for making my point. Thats not even a complete list and it doesn’t include any weapons sets. So whats the harm of having a wushu set?
I would also point out that a good portion of those sets are hong kong and chin wu sets of fairly recent invention.