Going back to original post in the thread.
Respect your right to your judgement.
Mine? I bought the book when it came out, read it and gave it away.
Regarded it as a marketing book with some fiction, fuzzy lineage history
and patronising towards “mainstream” wing chun.
Anerlich from Australia gave a fairly balanced review early on- but no good deed goes unrewarded as a later post from a HFY person showed.
The thread like most has veered off into other areas.
Back to practice.
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;778686]
Jesus, he must really think we’re clueless to try and run that by us.
[/QUOTE]
Just some of you. 
I know there are good WCK fighters out there – a few on this forum. There is actually evidence that proves it.
Find a post where I ever said WCK wasn’t a good MA. Of course, you can’t because I never said that. But as we all know, you don’t concern yourself with having evidence to support your views.
Hey, I’ve got an idea – why don’t you call me some more names? It seems that’s about all you can really do. 
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;778689]Respect your right to your judgement.
Mine? I bought the book when it came out, read it and gave it away.
Regarded it as a marketing book with some fiction, fuzzy lineage history
and patronising towards “mainstream” wing chun.
Anerlich from Australia gave a fairly balanced review early on- but no good deed goes unrewarded as a later post from a HFY person showed.
The thread like most has veered off into other areas.
Back to practice.
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
Joy,
I’m curious, did you ever have a chance to see/feel HFY in person? Being so close to the AZ kwoon and all…
Jonathan
Note: I do agree the thread, as almost every other thread on this forum, has just gone straight back to the same personal quibbles that the other threads turn into. One would think these same guys would learn that after all these years it’s not getting them anywhere… It’s just so pointless..
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;778682]
I think WCK can be a very good fighting method
[/quote]
What do you think is good about WCK that is specific to WCK and differentiates it from other similar methods?
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;778682]
The problem is in the traditional mindset and all the BS that goes with it, the ineffective training methods
[/quote]
Which methods specific to WCK are you referring to?
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;778716]
Find a post where I ever said WCK wasn’t a good MA. [/QUOTE]
You have intimated that all CMA are essentially crap…
Yung Chun has hit the correct.
And now Terence can do his spin lawyer dance.
The guy has intimated in about 200 posts by now that wing chun, it’s training methods, and it’s people are essentially crap - but has never walked the walk either in person (Cleveland) or on any vid - about anything…be it his wing chun skills or any other martial skills.
Typical lawyer bull/ego/audacity.
BACK TO THE LAND OF IGNORE, troll…
Find a post where I ever said WCK wasn’t a good MA.
What an ego. Thinking there would be anyone interested enough to trawl through all that drivel.
[QUOTE=YungChun;778736]You have intimated that all CMA are essentially crap…[/QUOTE]
TCMAs, like traditional japanese jiujitsu produces crap, but not because those methods, at least some of them, don’t have solid technical foundations, but because they train them really poorly. How many traditional japanese JJ schools are there? Too many too count (just as there are so many TCMAs). How come we never see any of them represented in any grappling or MMA or NHB fights (at least successfully)? Because they train like really poorly. Kano took much of the technical basis from traditional JJ and just updated/modernized the training, modernized the thinking, etc. And then, like today, TJJJ doesn’t hold a candle to judo or its progeny, BJJ, at least in terms of producing results. Those methods that haven’t adopted the better, more modern training methods have become essentially some sort of performance art or a vehicle for fantasy role-playing. That’s true in Japan, in China, and the West.
But, please, don’t let anything stop you guys from getting together in your matching outfits, diligently doing your forms, developing your chi, worshiping your sifu and ancestors, practicing your dim mak finger strikes, thinking you have the secret theory that makes what you do the “real WCK”, etc.
Wow Terence. I’m sensing some pent up hostility in your post. I thought it started off quite well with a relatively balanced critique of TMA. From what I can tell, the same problems are starting to creep into the MMA world. Schools of lower calibre come onto the scene as it’s popularity increases since someone sees that there is a buck to made. Not that money making is a problem in itself, but it can attract the wrong type of person into the market where an unsuspecting public is duped.
Then you go into this rant…
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;778862]But, please, don’t let anything stop you guys from getting together in your matching outfits, diligently doing your forms, developing your chi, worshiping your sifu and ancestors, practicing your dim mak finger strikes, thinking you have the secret theory that makes what you do the “real WCK”, etc.[/QUOTE]I’m not sure if your fashion sense has been insulted by clashing belts and shirts, or what. As for sifu worship, I suggest you look closely in the mirror when you make these comments. Your recommendation of your sifu’s recent publication, when the book clearly covers the topics that you rail against ( i.e forms) shows that everyone has a bias. IMO, I think your comments carry more weight when you show some restraint, and stay away from the biting sarcasm - we already have more than our fair share of that. :rolleyes: But maybe that’s just me.
hmmm…intersting comment…
But, please, don’t let anything stop you guys from getting together in your matching outfits, diligently doing your forms, developing your chi, worshiping your sifu and ancestors, practicing your dim mak finger strikes, thinking you have the secret theory that makes what you do the “real WCK”, etc.
Hey Terence,
Misconceptions abound and I would like to comment a bit, even if a little astray to the subject at hand. Usually I will shun these comments but on this little occasion I will post. Society as whole is really forgetting its roots and many of us in the martial circles are also going the same direction. I have observed and now I will dissect the above comments and give you my flawed and traditional ideas of what martial arts are.
‘getting together in your matching outfits…’: The Chinese were a ppl of ideas and subtleties abound in everything they do or did. Matching outfits are not just for aesthetic looks they represent the idea of ‘one art, one family’ and brotherhood among men. Martial virtue maybe?
‘diligently practicing your forms’: Again forms are not there just for the sake of them being there. If one looks at them as you would look at an encyclopedia then one would understand the many concepts and techniques of one’s art. Of course one has to put these to the test, but that’s a given.
‘developing your chi’: Hei (chi) is not supernatural. The development of hei is to strengthen ones body. Why have ‘skills if one doesn’t have health?’ my pops and also my sifu would always tell me anyhows.
‘worship of sifu and ancestors’: True, no need to pay homage/reverence to the many that sacrificed, fought, and in some instance died for you and I to have the art. None of us are here on just our efforts. Many have helped us and given us advise to get were we presently are. I truly understand were I have been and I think this gives me a small idea where I am at and where I want to head toward.
‘practice your dim mak strikes’: Dim Mak…understanding of the body and its various points…this isn’t uselful? so why have it?
Last but not least…there are no secret theories in any art…theories lie within the practitioner and if they work for him/her they are valid ones. No one person looks at or practices the art in the same way within the same family style. It is one of the reasons I try to keep an objective outlook toward the martial arts. Martial arts are not just for beating an opponent to a bloody pulp (although one must train diligently to be able to do so if need be)…it is also there to help preserve life. If a person can not understand this duality of the the martial arts then they have no balance whatsoever.
Take care,
‘getting together in your matching outfits…’:
Unless they’re a no gi exclusive club, most BJJ academies expect you to wear a gi. A lot of them expect you to put club patches on it as well, especially if you compete, which is of course the hallmark of a REAL MA.
Not a lot of KF academies have ceremonies as elaborate as MT’s Wai Kru (sp?) either.
Those methods that haven’t adopted the better, more modern training methods have become essentially some sort of performance art or a vehicle for fantasy role-playing.
Have you seen the trailer for Eddie Bravo’s forthcoming Rubber Guard DVD? you just described a lot of its content, I think.
Not dissing either art, or Eddie, it wasn’t me who suggested such things were crap.
Wow, would it help if I just say that HFY did not helped me at all? maybe that would stop all this mess. I already had my answers, at least what I knew I was going to get from this forum. I propose to just get a beer and chill ok? C ya guys in another forum.
Here are my comments:
‘developing your chi’:
Hei (chi) is not supernatural. The development of hei is to strengthen ones body. Why have ‘skills if one doesn’t have health?’ my pops and also my sifu would always tell me anyhows. ------------
FACT:
1,
the chinese use the Chi handling to help the health of thier astronauts. In Fact, under record, the chinese Astronauts were tune via chinese herb before the flying. and the result is both the Astronauts walks out of the space ship/rokect /whatever with excellent health and no air sickness while thier traveling into the space.
I have watched the documentary video. and how the TCM pioneer study different cases of USA and Russian astronauts, and then decide what to do to tune these mens’ body.
2,
Beside, what is Chi in martial art? until one knows what it is. how could one comment?
‘worship of sifu and ancestors’:
True, no need to pay homage/reverence to the many that sacrificed, fought, and in some instance died for you and I to have the art. None of us are here on just our efforts. Many have helped us and given us advise to get were we presently are. I truly understand were I have been and I think this gives me a small idea where I am at and where I want to head toward.-------
what is wrong with worship sifu and ancestors? what is wrong with other practice thier tradition?
some worship money, some worship violence? some worship thier own ego or blind self-righteousness, what do you worship?
‘practice your dim mak strikes’:
Dim Mak…understanding of the body and its various points…this isn’t uselful? so why have it?
Last but not least…there are no secret theories in any art…theories lie within the practitioner and if they work for him/her they are valid ones. No one person looks at or practices the art in the same way within the same family style. It is one of the reasons I try to keep an objective outlook toward the martial arts. Martial arts are not just for beating an opponent to a bloody pulp (although one must train diligently to be able to do so if need be)…it is also there to help preserve life. If a person can not understand this duality of the the martial arts then they have no balance whatsoever. --------
Fact:
2002, a famous chinese lady TV person from Taiwan was left coma in a Train accident in Britian/ Europa.
Western Medicine cant do much to safe here.
She was transport to Beijing, due to here critical condition, ALL WESTERN MEDICINE was drop. She was under the Traditional Chinese Medicine, her body condition recover, and via Accupuncture, she awake from her coma…
Hendrik,
Exactly my point with my earlier rhetorical statement…in order to cook a good meal one needs all of the ingredients if not food tastes so-so…don’t you think?
[QUOTE=DRleungjan;778904]Hendrik,
Exactly my point with my earlier rhetorical statement…in order to cook a good meal one needs all of the ingredients if not food tastes so-so…don’t you think? ;)[/QUOTE]
Yup.
I can appreciate different opinions. however when the opinion is totally blind. it is just absurd.
Qi is simple stuffs. in fact, one dont have to go to mystisysm to know what is Qi. just practice cultivate it. and experience its grow in one’s body. that simple.
So, instead of argue and keep spining the mind, wasting all the energy. just go train with a sifu who knows what is it and how to cultivate it.
It is just off the mark not tasting chocolate and keep commenting about chocolate. Is Chocolate the best thing is the world? depend. but not tasting it and keep bu$thing and commenting is just showing one’s ignorance and a big ego so big that one become blind.
a big AMEN to your above statement brother Hendrik.
Welp…back to my corner…hehehe
just to be clear-
DRleungjan is a different person then me-
John Crescione