Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
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Greetings to all,
While I have not been completely active on Kung Fu Magazine Online for some time, I have visited this forum on an infrequent basis. Drleungjohn has brought up some questions about Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kuen on a different thread, which I would like to address here.

Since drleungjohn has requested there be no intent to restart such things in the answering of his questions, I have hopes that those who are about to participate in this thread may keep that idea as the standard for discussion. I will be using drleungjohn’s posts to open the discussion, but I am writing this thread, for the most part, to everyone here.

Originally posted by drleungjohn
No politics-trolling-etc-discussion and education-go…
One can only hope that this will happen! Just to be clear with the readers, my reasons for re-engaging conversations here about Hung Fa Yi are for educational purposes only. This is my only intent. I am not here to point fingers, belittle other lineages, attack personalities, convince others, and force my ideas and understandings on anyone. I hope posters here will consider the message in the above quote, but of course no one is being forced. There is a great deal of information about HFY that could be shared on KFO, and I hope one day we all can have conversations openly and hospitably for everyone’s benefit.

Originally posted by drleungjohn
Since MOST haven’t seen or experienced HFY-
That depends on your point of reference. The way I read your comment, I think it may be more accurate to state that some of the audience members here on KFO have not had much exposure to HFYWCK; could possibly be true, but there are many non-HFY martial artists who have (and I mean more than just a few hours) seen and experienced HFY. Several notable people from TWC like Dale Vits (10 yrs), the late William Mason (TWC), and Sifu Delori Flood (20+ yrs) are just a few people who have experienced and seen that HFY is different from what they know about other WC.

Many people have come from other martial arts and joined HFY. Just to name a couple more… Master Benny Meng (20+ years MYVTK) who has also researched many other WC branches during that time immediately identified with the wisdoms of HFY back in 1998. Gary Collins from Ireland, who had 6 years of experience in the learning and teaching of Chu Shon Tin’s WC prior to joining HFY, strongly identifies with HFY and now runs a Regional HFY Branch as an International HFY Instructor.

Aside from these (HFY & non-HFY) public figures I’ve mentioned, there are MANY people around the world who have experienced HFY first hand who do not participate on internet forums. You would be surprised when you really know how many people are out there who have seen and experienced HFY.

Grandmaster Garrett Gee has been teaching HFY privately since 1975, and has taught over 1000 people – about 5 different generations of students over 32 years - and many personality types (from industry professionals to street fighters). He has taught people from all walks of life. The World Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Association currently has several hundreds of members across the world, many of whom have come from other martial arts and including already ‘accomplished’ martial artists. So to say “MOST haven’t seen or experienced HFY” is too misleading to the general public, unless you are referring to a specific group of people. Either way, I hope this information helps.

Originally posted by drleungjohn
What makes it different?
The difference comes down to personal experience, John. As an example, Sifu Flood of TWC attended a HFY seminar (along with 40+ members in attendance) conducted by Grandmaster Gee where HFY footwork was one of the focal points. Even for him, the first few times he analyzed GM Gee in motion he also could not see the difference between HFY and TWC. Sifu Flood spent over 20 total hours that weekend and a good portion of those hours were with GM Gee until 3 to 4am after scheduled workshop hours. GM Gee took Sifu Flood deeper into the system regarding HFY footwork. Sifu Flood asked GM Gee a lot of questions about the HFY system. It was when GM Gee pointed out the mechanical and strategic characteristics of HFY footwork when Sifu Flood identified that HFY and TWC are actually two different systems, even though both are also Wing Chun.

Some individuals did not see any real differences at first. It wasn’t until they spent more time in the deeper layers of HFY; beyond the surface when they saw how different it was. Some people saw differences right away! Here’s a unique case - a good friend of mine who has no experience in any Wing Chun at all told me from the things he has seen and read about HFY that it is very different from the other WC. Differences are in the eyes of the beholder.

Differences come down to your level of perception and personal experience.

My Sisuk, (Sifu Jeremy) posted a good overview on what is called the “Sei Daai Yan” which is translated as the “Four Big Seals”. The Four Big Seals is a tool that aides in seeing the martial arts world. This information comes from Grandmaster Gee, who is the Buhn Jyun of HFYWCK.

Originally posted by passing_through
[b]Hi John, long time no see…

Guessing and speculating at what other people do is a wonderful waste of time…

As for similarities in Wing Chun, I think it should be obvious that all families would share similarities.

Coming from my research of the HFY perspective to date – and this is something I haven’t heard coming from the Ip Man lineage anywhere, or TWC, or Chi Sim, or Cho Ga, or Gu Lao or anywhere else for that matter… there are four stages to martial arts. Each stage represents a level of achievement in terms of skill and understanding. Now, these terms are HFY specific and I’m still working to trace the etymology and these are my working translations for now, but…

Sei Daai Yan (four big seals)

  1. Saam Mo Kiu Yan (three connecting bridge seal)
  2. Daai Ji San Faat Yan (disciple body method seal)
  3. Wu Faat Yan (protector method seal)
  4. Bun Jyun Yan (exclusive right to the origins seal)

These four seals each point to different categories within a traditional martial art family.

The Saam Mo Kiu Yan is a type of free-form general kick/punch/trap/grab format much like today’s mixed martial arts. There’s not a lot of focus in terms of the techniques or clearly defined strategy or tactics.

The Daai Ji San Faat Yan is a more restricted format, focused on body mechanics and specific, signature structures – such as Choi Lei Fat’s Chaap Cheui. Each martial art family has unique signatures – kinda like Terance mentioning about a Robert Chu body structure being unique… cobbled together without giving credit but unique.

The Wu Faat Yan is someone who not only has the physical skill and precise signature structures but also understands the concepts and theories behind them to the point that he or she can preserve the technical knowledge of a martial art family.

The Bun Jyun Yan represents a person that is either the founder or has achieved the same skill and understanding as the original source of the martial art family – and there is also a spiritual dimension to this layer as the ‘original source’ points back to the Buddha-nature or ‘suchness’ or ‘thusness’ within every human being.

I have not come across this concept so clearly defined in my research to date outside the HFY family but I have come across the general levels mentioned from a variety of sources.

This skeleton gives rise to understanding how Wing Chun could come from one source and eventually change through the various generations – and why there are connections throughout the entire Wing Chun family, dysfunctional as it is. If someone was operating at the first seal, his kung fu would be different than someone at the second, third, or fourth seal. As for which is ‘better’ or ‘superior’ that’s a matter of personal preference – not everyone wants to needs a Ph.D. – some just want to get the farge out of high school and be done with it.

Jeremy R.[/b]
In the first seal, many similarities can be drawn between all martial arts on the surface level. Heck, there are people today that don’t see a difference between karate and kung fu! That reminds me when back in the 80’s the word “Coke” was used for every kind of soda pop there was. But, again that is just a reflection on surface level stereotypes and comparisons. At the surface level, I cannot argue with anyone when they say “all Wing Chun looks/is the same” because that is a valid observation at the surface level. They can say the same about differences, and I still would not argue. But the deeper you go into a martial art, the more unique it becomes from the rest of things and the lesser things look the same.

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Sifu Flood identified the differences in HFY to TWC once he was shown the deeper layers, but he was not able to discern such things from the surface level. This is similar to the saying First, there is a mountain. Then, there is no mountain. Yes, there is a mountain. To understand the real differences about things, EXPERIENCE IS REQUIRED in the deeper layers, and depending on the level of experience your observations will vary. So to some there are no differences and vice versa.

Originally posted by DrLeungjohn
What is the WC formula?
Simply stated, HFYs Wing Chun formula is a means to maintain consistency and functionality, structurally and mechanically, for the purpose of HFY study only. With part of my background stemming from Moy Yat Ving Tsun (SNT through the weapons), I can tell you that certain parts of HFYs WC Formula are present in MYVTK, but there are also things not present there. On the surface, everybody can look the same. The bottom line is that HFYs WC Formula is used to measure consistency and functionality throughout the HFY system. That is its purpose.

Originally posted by DrLeungjohn
What theories separate it from mainstream WCK AND TWC?
Theory is but one category in martial arts. Other areas point to Principle, such that the principles that serve as the foundation of HFY technology allow it interact with other Southern Shaolin Kung Fu styles; Baak Mei, Chu Ga Tong Long, Lung Ying, White Crane, and so on. An example from a technological standpoint is its Kiu Sau platform. HFYs Kiu Sau is based on principles of Time, Space, and Energy. Because of this foundation, HFY Kiu Sau allows the user to engage other Southern Shaolin Kung Fu without compromising the parameters of HFY operation. HFYs Kiu Sau is not a reference to using Paak Sau/Taan Sau/Bong Sau/Wu Sau for bridging, per se. There is so much more to HFYs Kiu Sau in terms of having layers upon layers of information, and several categories of tools and applications.

As mentioned on this forum and over at HFY108.com, HFYs Kiu Sau Platform contains:

Bong Laap Kiu Sau
Deui Ying Kiu Sau
Dim Buhn Kiu Sau
Faat Sau Kiu Sau
Kwan Sau Kiu Sau
Saam Sing Jong Kiu Sau

These are not singular techniques, but refer to an intricate threading of solid concepts with many layers of learning under one over-riding philosophy. They are more like different subjects of study, each with their own chapters and lessons. All these methods of bridging are range dependent and require lots of hands-on training. These tools can interact with the other Southern Shaolin Kung Fu, including other Wing Chun. Depending on how deep you want to go, it may require a lot more background information to understand the technology and its reason for employment, which can be said about anything else in martial arts. Or just the tools can be learned, but that can be determined based on a students needs and/or capacity for such things.

If you are interested in doing some reading about HFYs Kiu Sau, feel free to research HFY108.com because there is lots of info over there on it.

Going back to my training of MYVTK, none of HFYs Kiu Sau platforms exist in it save one technique of horizontal Faat Sau (as expressed in the second section of the SNT form). None of the Kiu Sau theories, concepts, and mechanics is present in my previous training. That is one of the biggest differences, from my observations.

Regards,
Savi.

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Hi Savi,

Perhaps Flood Sifu, might be talked into writing an article, comparing and contrasting, from his perception - TWC to HFY.

Giving the community additional information, is empowering the community to make the most well informed opinion.

                             B
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Many Thanks Savi-

Much appreciated and I hope we can create a dialogue with some direction and understanding-I will hold off on my questions for a day or 2-
If Jeremy reads this-Hey Dude-!-My reply to your 4 Seals was in that closed but basically I wonder if NONE of WCK has it-wouldn’t that mean that it was added in??

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[QUOTE=drleungjohn;766419]Much appreciated and I hope we can create a dialogue with some direction and understanding-I will hold off on my questions for a day or 2-
If Jeremy reads this-Hey Dude-!-My reply to your 4 Seals was in that closed but basically I wonder if NONE of WCK has it-wouldn’t that mean that it was added in??[/QUOTE]Again, I would say that depends on your point of reference in asking the question. Much of the HFY system was greatly influenced, according to its oral traditions, by Hung Gun Biu from the Hung Gun Boxers of the 1850’s. If you read up on some of the threads I’ve created over at HFY108, specifically on the “Equator Chi Sau” thread, I’ve posted a lot of information on the impact he had on our great system.

Before the 1850’s, you have approximately four generations of people tracing back to the fall of the Ming Dynasty. According to my Buhn Jyun, Grandmaster Gee, the Sei Daai Yan has roots that extend outside of the confines of physical combat. As Sifu Jeremy referenced the Four Big Seals represents a level of awareness/existence wherein each seal progressively leads into the fourth seal, that of spirituality and the Buddha-nature. Reread where I’ve quoted Sifu Jeremy on the Four Big Seals to get another idea (or refresh) about what each seal represents. The Four Big Seals is a tool (but not limited to) providing a means to see the Gong Wu in a different light.

For a person to attain a ‘seal’ is no different than having a Guru as your guide. These seals are not self-appointed, and can only be granted by the Guru of your journey. Only the Guru can identify the paradigm that a person’s awareness is at in the journey. The impact that the Sei Daai Yan has on HFY, as with any other martial art that may have this, is one of the highest levels of protection and preservation for a system to have in order to survive the fabric of Time - provided that someone is at the higher seals. As an example, someone at the Wu Faat Yan (the Protector Seal) literally owns the information of the system as if it were a part of his/her own blood. That person not only operates at a martial level where mind (principle/concept/theory/strategy/tactic) and body (showmanship) are of near perfect reflections, but also knows precisely what kind of information is to be distributed at what levels a given audience is at. And keep in mind that someone who is at the higher seals can read the martial arts world more clearly than someone at the lower seals.

Now, this is just my opinion, but from what I know of it tells me that this “firewall” of sorts had to have been in existence at or before the birth of the system, and played an important role in its development. It’s roots stem from Buddhism, according to my Buhn Jyun, and to see how intrinsic it is in HFY’s system logic is quite an amazing thing to behold. Looking at it from this perspective, it would seem too improbable for it to be added in afterwards, for only mere LUCK would have it that the two objects would have complimentary formats to be seamlessly integrated after the formation of HFYWCK.

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First, I would like to say to Savi thank you for taking the time to share this information. It is very informative, even coming from HFY myself. Hopefully this will bring about good discussion, and better understanding here!

RE:
[QUOTE=drleungjohn;766419]…My reply to your 4 Seals was in that closed but basically I wonder if NONE of WCK has it-wouldn’t that mean that it was added in??[/QUOTE]

John,

Reading your post on another thread, and then reading this portion of your post here, I am wondering, what is it you are trying to ‘say’ here? To me, this seems like you are trying to instigate something - What are you exactly are you saying/thinking when you say ‘wouldn’t that mean it was added in??’

If you are wondering this, who are you guessing added it and when?
Are you saying that it wasn’t there as Savi presented it? Are you saying that this is misinformation by Savi? Please clarify what you are talking about, because this kind of talk could be construed as offensive if implying that savi is misleading you with information, or mores-so that the HFY lineage is doing so.. (?)

Jonathan

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[QUOTE=byond1;766410]Hi Savi,

Perhaps Flood Sifu, might be talked into writing an article, comparing and contrasting, from his perception - TWC to HFY.

Giving the community additional information, is empowering the community to make the most well informed opinion.

                             B[/QUOTE]

Byond1 (is it Brian, so I can call you by your name?),

This sounds like a very good idea - I think it would be very interesting for all to get his take on the similarities/differences between the systems! (myself included)

I wonder if there is a way someone could get in touch with him and either have him post his thoughts here, or share something with you to post up?

Regards,
Jonathan

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Savi,

You seem to be taking great pains to make the case that HFY is very different than many/most (all?) other wing chun systems.

I’ve just emailed my friend Delroi about the “differences” between HFY and TWC…but while I await his response, something else ocurred to me.

Why not post some sparring clips of HFY in action - so that we can all see these big differences?..Instead of inviting people to go travel to a seminar. (Someone invited me on another thread to go to the Rochester, NY seminar. Like I’m really going to drive all the way to Rochester!!!)

Some of us lead very busy lives.

Post something.

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[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;766535]Savi,

You seem to be taking great pains to make the case that HFY is very different than many/most (all?) other wing chun systems.

I’ve just emailed my friend Delroi about the “differences” between HFY and TWC…but while I await his response, something else ocurred to me.

Why not post some sparring clips of HFY in action - so that we can all see these big differences?..Instead of inviting people to go travel to a seminar. (Someone invited me on another thread to go to the Rochester, NY seminar. Like I’m really going to drive all the way to Rochester!!!)

Some of us lead very busy lives.

Post something.[/QUOTE]Victor,
If you lead such a busy life, then don’t worry about engaging on this thread. It’s no “great pain” for me to discuss these things. The problem with videos is that you don’t know what you would be looking at. In addition, the reality of such things is just a recording of someone’s personal showmanship of things they can do; rather than an intended and deliberate demonstration (instructional) of what is HFY. Thats not the focus of this discussion.

This thread is about answering Drleungjohns questions about HFY, and any other questions people may have. It is not about going through great pains to prove how different HFY is to other WCK.

Regards,
Savi.

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Keep it up Savi. It’s been a good read so far and an excellent distillation of ideas.

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No Politics!!

This thread is about providing some insight into HFY for those who want it.

All WC systems have differences and unique qualities. Let’s appreciate theses differences instead of focusing on them to be devisive.

drleungjohn said: My reply to your 4 Seals was in that closed but basically I wonder if NONE of WCK has it-wouldn’t that mean that it was added in??

I find this to be a careless remark, especially after Savi so went to such a positive degree to answer your question.

Yes… the 4 big seals may be unique to HFY. But it was not added in. As Savi has detailed very clearly above, to do so is contradictory to the very nature of their purpose, which is to protect and preserve the purity and techinical knowledge of the system.

To a certain degree, this is also why we don’t do videos. While there is nothing wrong with other systems promoting themselves and making a buck on DVD’s… for us it is definite no go. Only through hands on interaction can the teacher be assured that the HFY knowledge is preseved and not misinterpreted. We call this Hou Chun Saan Sau.

Keep up the good work Savi, and I hope this thread continues in a positive manner.

Victor,

I know Matt. (the HFY member who offered to pay the seminar fee for you) His offer was genuine. Being West Coasters, unfortunately many of us have no idea how far NY is from Rochester. In Arizona, that’s just a drive around the park. :smiley:

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Just a quick comment. I’ve always appreciated Savi’s posts, he has a very fine way of explaining things. The problem that arises IMO is sometimes the terminology is different from what I am used to hearing in WC conversations, even when it is translated in fine detail, it still doesn’t completely make sense. I was given a copy of the Mastering Kung Fu book a couple of years ago, and I thoroughly enjoyed reading it, many times over I must say. I recognized many similiar priniciples and concepts to the TWC that I was practicing at that time, at least on the surface. One thing that I have learned over the last two years, is the idea of personal experience, “Hou Chun Saan Sau” as the duende mentioned. It is only then will you realize what the system is all about. I used to think to myself when I viewed clips of Sifu Lam that what he was doing was also included in the system I was practicing/teaching, but it was only when I touched hands with him and other’s at his school that I realized just how different what they where doing is.:cool:

Regarding video, if your plan is to promote something, then you should do so by any means. If it wasn’t for the video’s Sifu Lam had avaliable on the net, and what was sent to me privately, I would have probably never went to visit with him, and be where I am today. So in that instance, it was a positive influence (at least I think so, lol), but I can see where the HFY group is coming from. To me, video’s and clips online promote curiosity, that is if you can realize that what you are viewing is not the end all be all of what that system is about. I would love to view video’s of HFY in the future as I am still curious about what they are doing and what the differences are. I would also love to share information one on one with them if that situation every arises. I try to view things with an open mind now, and look forward to health displays of sharing. As a family, it can only help us understand one another better IMO, and avoid the pi$$ing matches that sometimes arise between us.:smiley:

James

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Hello,

One thing that I have learned over the last two years, is the idea of personal experience, “Hou Chun Saan Sau” as the duende mentioned. It is only then will you realize what the system is all about. I used to think to myself when I viewed clips of Sifu Lam that what he was doing was also included in the system I was practicing/teaching, but it was only when I touched hands with him and other’s at his school that I realized just how different what they where doing is.

Hi James,
That is a really great illustration of why HCSS is so important. To take it a step further, you can have the same process in person. I may be working away with my partner, thinking I have it, only to find that I don’t when the instructor touches my hands.

Instead of inviting people to go travel to a seminar. (Someone invited me on another thread to go to the Rochester, NY seminar. Like I’m really going to drive all the way to Rochester!!!)

Some of us lead very busy lives.

Hi Victor,
I meant no disrespect in my offer. You seem to have some very serious questions about HFY, and in my opinion no one can better address them than Grand Master Gee. If you are sincerely interested it is a small matter to make it to Rochester, especially considering GM Gee will be traveling in from San Francisco.

Matt

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[QUOTE=Savi;766387]Simply stated, HFY’s Wing Chun formula is a means to maintain consistency and functionality, structurally and mechanically, for the purpose of HFY study only. With part of my background stemming from Moy Yat Ving Tsun (SNT through the weapons), I can tell you that certain parts of HFY’s WC Formula are present in MYVTK, but there are also things not present there. On the surface, everybody can look the same. The bottom line is that HFY’s WC Formula is used to measure consistency and functionality throughout the HFY system. That is its purpose.
[/QUOTE]

Can you tell me how you can “measure functionality” outside of sparring/fighting?

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[QUOTE=t_niehoff;766646]Can you tell me how you can “measure functionality” outside of sparring/fighting?[/QUOTE]How can you “measure functionality” inside of sparring/fighting?

The WC Formula is a self-check system to identify strengths and weakness in relation to system standards of operation. Period. This tool has nothing to do with how you do things, T. It’s a measuring tool for HFY studies.

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Something else to consider for the readers on HFY’s WC Formula. This formula is actually a sequence of movements expressing a concept called the “Sup Ming Dim”, explained below from a thread on Chi Sau at HFY108.com:

from the teachings of Sifu Garrett Gee
[b]Shape (ying) is the first step to address in connecting your sense of awareness directly to the immediate reality you have to face. Shape goes hand in hand with the Sup Ming Dim Concept. The Sup Ming Dim Concept is a specific set of reference points congruent to your skeletons range of motion, and is used to define the most secure and efficient positions to align your body parts; effectively eliminating potential openings to the area(s) under attack. However, without using a defined shape to engage an attack your defense may prove to have unnecessary weaknesses. That could also lead to you having to address more than just the initial attack. Without the implementation of the Sup Ming Dim Concept, every time you move openings will be created.

Any non-defined shape is called a [structural] distortion. By HFY definition, a distortion is actually two-fold: 1) executing a non-defined shape, and 2) improper use of Gate Theory (spatial coverage). Generally, a distortion is referred to as Outside the Box. What is the latter? The exact opposite of distortion is called harmony. Harmony is synonymous with the phrase Inside the Box, which is the designed environment for the use of Hung Fa Yi technology. This idea of Inside the Box/Outside the Box is important to understand in respect to Gee Ng Kiu, as all parameters of operation must be identified and defined before further training occurs.

One of the lessons within the philosophy of Ng Loon Ying Jong Faat (Five Wheel Reaction Method) is that any technique must have a solid concept supporting it such that it may survive in Time and Space. To do this, we must shift our intention from being technique-oriented to concept-oriented. The phrase No Techniques are All Techniques is the underlying principle. Without the use of a concept to drive your technique, the chances of its survival in combat cannot be measured. In Hung Fa Yis Chi Sau logic, each move utilizes reference points (Sup Ming Dim) to support the concept of Spatial Occupation (Gate Theory), Range Control, and Energy Concepts, which can all be measured. The idea behind this type of Chi Sau is to protect the gates first and foremost through defined structure, before considering striking or kicking.[/b]

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How can you “measure functionality” outside of sparring/fighting?

The measure of functionality is based on the ability of specific (human) body structures in conjunction with given techniques (based on human body) that clearly demonstrate the ability to enhance the efficiency of the human body to apply a corresponding principle.

Saprring/fighting is used to measure personal and individual ability to apply or comprehend these principles.

"Bong Laap Kiu Sau
Deui Ying Kiu Sau
Dim Buhn Kiu Sau
Faat Sau Kiu Sau
Kwan Sau Kiu Sau
Saam Sing Jong Kiu Sau

These are not singular techniques, but refer to an intricate threading of solid concepts with many layers of learning under one over-riding philosophy. They are more like different subjects of study, each with their own chapters and lessons."

originally posted by Savi
All these methods of bridging are range dependent and require lots of hands-on training.

Sparring without some of the proper knowledge could be more detrimental than helpful it is possible it could reinforce some bad habits as opposed to giving the student some specifics to focus on to better their own abilities. So learn first then apply, learn from mistakes of applying then apply again with insight of experience.

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“The problem with videos is that you don’t know what you would be looking at.” (Savi)

***YOU’VE GOT TO BE kidding me, Savi. I’m doing wing chun for 32 years - and I’ve read/witnessed/interacted with countless people, books, articles, videos within the wing chun world - as well as having become very familiar with boxing, wrestlng, jiu jitsu, etc. throughout the years.

If you dont think I’d know what I’m looking at - whether it be fighting, sparring, forms, chi sao, kiu sao, wooden dummy, etc.

…then you’re seriously clueless.

Anyway, I will be attending a TWC seminar here on Long Island on June 24th - and Delroi Flood will be there. So I’ll make it my business to have a long talk with him about his experiences with Garrett Gee and HFY.

In the meantime - good luck with all your time, space, and energy. :rolleyes: :cool:

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[QUOTE=t_niehoff;766646]Can you tell me how you can “measure functionality” outside of sparring/fighting?[/QUOTE]

The formula is like a checkpoint exercise. You can check yourself and your structure with it.

How it applies to sparring / fighting is you will either be expressing the Sup Ming Dim in sparring or you will not. To me what I would describe it has done for my sparring / fighting is helped to make it more compact or efficient.

A lot of this stuff really is made for hands-on learning and while explaining some of it like Savi has done a great job on can serve to pique some interest, even if you have a lot of background it really is just made for hands-on learning.

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Delroi

Man, poor Delroi.

I’ll bet he’s got a bag of ice on each ear to relieve the burning sensation, and another on his back to relieve the burden of expectation. I’m also wondering whether the “HFY experience” is still branded as deeply into his psyche as some seem to expect it will be.

I personally am sceptical that you can really learn much about certain MA’s, Wing Chun and Arnis for example, from video. OTOH others, like BJJ, lend themselves very well to the format.

What I can’t follow is the argument that DVDs are supposedly bad when a book is supposedly good.