How are Hu Hui-Chien’s Weng Chun and Chi Sim Weng Chun and Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Related ?
Fire Hawk,
What is Hu Hui-Chien’s Weng Chun?
Roger
Although Jee Shim and Ng Mui are considered to be fable and not real maybe Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun has both Chi Sim Weng Chun and Ng Mui Wing Chun in it maybe this is how it is related to these arts a combination of Chi Sim Weng Chun elements and Ng Mui forms and things like that Hung Fa Yi would have got the forms Sui Lien Tao ,Sui Nim Tao , Chum Kui , Bill Jee , from Ng Mui Wing Chun and other elements from Chi Sim Weng Chun . And who is this Hu Hui-Chien and his Weng Chun he has Fa Kuen in his Weng Chun so does Chi Sim Weng Chun could Hu Hui-Chien be related to Fujian Wing Chun that is talked about in the book Complete Wing Chun ?
Fire Hawk,
You must be the Hu Hui-Chien Weng Chun Champion.
Can you share with us about your Chi Sim experience with GM Hoffman at the VTM?
How do you compare the Chi Sim Fa Kuen to Hu Hui-Chien Fa Kuen?
Roger
Hi Rolling_Hand
Grandmaster Hoffmann showed me his forms from Chi Sim Weng Chun Fa Kuen, Jong kuen dummy boxing i think there where 2 forms that he showed me of Jong Kuen , he showed me his chi kung form , and I think Sam Pai Fut i cant remember about the Sam Pai Fut Form , and he did Qi Na on me every move I would make with my arms or legs he would counter with Qi Na I really could feel the pressure in my arms and my leg when he did the Qi Na he could have broken any of my limbs if he wanted to ,he also did the Eight form single hit or Baat Sik Danda with his student . Grandmaster hoffmann has great form and knows his Chi Sim Art very well if you have not seen him in person you really should he is very good at his art the people who went to the simenar could tell you more than I could because they seen alot more than what I got to see . As far as Hu Hui-Chien and his Weng Chun I dont know anything about him Hendrik Santo s is the person who knows about him so I was wondering what the story is with Hu Hui-Chien and his weng Chun .
As far as Hu Hui-Chien and his Weng Chun I dont know anything about him Hendrik Santo s is the person who knows about him so I was wondering what the story is with Hu Hui-Chien and his weng Chun >>FireHawk
Fire Hawk,
Have you seen any Chum Kiu or Biu Ji on the Cho’s wing chun videos?
Re: Hi Rolling_Hand
Originally posted by FIRE HAWK
As far as Hu Hui-Chien and his Weng Chun I dont know anything about him Hendrik Santo s is the person who knows about him so I was wondering what the story is with Hu Hui-Chien and his weng Chun .
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sorry, the computer can read chinese 
Hu Hui-Chien or the kungfu brother of Hung Xi-Kuan (Hung Gar ancestors) is popular.
Anyone watching the Shaws’ brother Shao Lin kung Fu movies will know him.
Now, in the Legend, Hu learn kungfu from Jee Shim and practice his art in the WENG CHUN TONG or EVER LASTING HALL of the Southern SHAOLIN. And his set is Fa Kuen which has component such as Fut Cheong… Peng Kuen… and Set such as Jong Kuen..
It is not a secret at all. It is some researchers are sleeping..
IN the Red Jung, this type of Weng Chun or the Hui Hui-Chien Weng Chun could be exist. But that is different to Wing Chun.
As for How Weng Chun people do SLT… Well, some people might learn that in the Red Boat from the WCK actors. IMHO.
On the other hand, say people original study Northern Tai Tzu, then study some TaiJi. CAn this group of people using the The Northern Tai Tzu ancestors family tree to claim they are the olderst TaiJi because the Northern Tai Tzu link to the emperor of Sung dynasty? IN reality they don’t understand taiji since thier root is Tai tzu.
also CAn some people who has no clue about what is the 13 postures keep claiming the olderst Taiji has 108 postures form…? and keep asking have you see Chang San feng doing 108 postures set?
Firehawk asks …
“How are … Chi Sim Weng Chun and Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Related ?”
I don’t have an abundance of experience with Chi Sim Weng Chun but I would like to share what I know. If you asked this question to me, and I had only seen the motions of each system I would say they weren’t. However, looking past form there are many similarities. So much so that I would say they are like cousins.
The visual difference is in form. Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun forms are SLT, CK, BJ. Chi Sim Weng Chun plays different forms, as you witnessed. I enjoyed playing the Fa Kuen form with Master Hoffman when he was here. HFYWC and other Wing Chun families don’t have this form.
The similarities can be found in history, training methodologies, principles, concepts, philosophies, etc… CSWC and HFYWC both trace their lineage back to the Weng Chun Tong within the Southern Shaolin Temple. Each system has double knife, pole and wooden man sets. Both systems utilize gate and line concepts.
That could all be coincidence but the link that seals the deal is Kiu Sao. As far as I know CSWC doesn’t differentiate between the terms Kiu Sao and Chi Sao. If you have seen CSWC Kiu Sao/Chi Sao you know its different than what most think of as chi sao. In HFYWC we train and recognize both Kiu Sao and Chi Sao. That along with other family traits link us to our cousin and our Wing Chun Kuen brothers.
Chi Sim Weng Chun - Fa Kuen, Saam Bai Faat, others …
Wing Chun Kuen - Siu Lin Tao, Chum Kiu, Biu Jee
How Choy Li Fut people do SLT? “Well, some people might learn that in the Red Boat from the WCK actors. IMHO.”
-David
Hendrik,
Since it seems polite, reasonable requests for you to keep this thread pure between Fire Hawk and RH (it is about Cho’s Chum Kiu and Bui Ji, not Weng Chun or anything else) have failed, I must unfortunately now place you on ignore. alongside unmissed and soon-to-be-forgotten trolls like Grendel, John weiland.
Please feel free you go your way. I won’t be able to see further postings here.
Originally posted by Rolling_Hand
[B]Hendrik,
Since it seems polite, reasonable requests for you to keep this thread pure between Fire Hawk and RH (it is about Cho’s Chum Kiu and Bui Ji, not Weng Chun or anything else) have failed, I must unfortunately now place you on ignore. alongside unmissed and soon-to-be-forgotten trolls like Grendel, John weiland.
Please feel free you go your way. I won’t be able to see further postings here. [/B]
Certainly. the blind will never see right?
where is your factual evidents… lol
anyone wants the writing about the Hu Hui-Chien Weng Chun Kuen?
decode the chinese writing on the top and one will see a small part…
another question : how do the actor who play cocumbine post or bai Jong? very feminin not like the solder of Qing or monk right?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by desertwingchun2
[B]Firehawk asks …
“How are … Chi Sim Weng Chun and Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Related ?”
I don’t have an abundance of experience with Chi Sim Weng Chun but I would like to share what I know. If you asked this question to me, and I had only seen the motions of each system I would say they weren’t. However, looking past form there are many similarities. So much so that I would say they are like cousins. "— d
You represent HFY, is that corrent?
"How Choy Li Fut people do SLT? “Well, some people might learn that in the Red Boat from the WCK actors. IMHO.” "---- d
different people has different taste.
the different is some keep thier CLF, Hung Gar, Mok Kar… seperate in an honest way.
But, some call coffee and water down tea mix the original tea.
My Thoughts On A Connection!!!
Firehawk Wrote>
How are Hu Hui-Chien’s Weng Chun and Chi Sim Weng Chun and Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Related ?
I actually believe and came out with my thoughts on this on the WCML some time ago.
IMHO, I believe that Chi Sim Weng Chun, Hung Gar and Hung Fa Yi are actually all very closely related, allot closer than some think.
Sheldon
The relationship would be, if based on all oral transmissions/legends, would be one of kin-ship traced back to the Weng Chun Tong of Nam Siu Lam Jee.
Jee Shim taught Hu and Hung in the Weng Chun Tong, and they went off to found Weng Chun and Hung Ga respectively. HFY came from the same place, and later Jee Shim left and taught directly to the Red Junk, which became known Jee Shim (Chi Sim) Weng Chun Kuen.
If you’re interested in a comparison based only on verifiable history, it would be a much longer, and perhaps very difficult discussion if performed ethically and honestly.
Originally posted by Phenix (to desertwingchun2)
You represent HFY, is that corrent?
No. He represents himself and his understanding of HFYWC, just like Savi and I. Just like almost everyone here does with their respective WC experiences.
This assumption is what creates a lot of confusion. When each person speaks for themselves, but the listener decides they are speaking for everyone, then two different experiences suddenly become two conflicting statements.
It has been said many times by many people that posts here reflect only the poster, and their understanding. Everyone seemed to indicate that they understood that, but perhaps I was wrong.
So to baseline the discussion again, before anyone gets confused or makes assumptions, WE ARE ALL ONLY SPEAKING FOR OURSELVES.
FWIW, my experience has been very similar to David’s. In terms of choreography there seems to be little similarity, but in terms of theory and underlying concepts, there seems to be little differences. The variance manifests mainly in the application of the concepts. The vocabulary, the methodology, the learning progressions - they are all strikingly similar.
Ditto on CSWC Kiuh Sau. That more than anything showed me first hand a deeper connection that I would have though previously.
-Levi
-Levi
Levi,
Have you has a chance to train/share/exchange with any of the systems typically referred to as “Southern Shaolin” (Hung, Lao, Lee, Mok, Choy, or the Nam Tong Long, Lung Ying, Bak Hok, Bak Mei, etc.) and if so, were your experiences similar?
I studied Lohan Kung Fu before I started Wing Chun, and while doing that I was able to spend a lot of time around Southern Mantis and White Crane (Sifus who were friends of my first instructor). I admittedly did not study them as in depth as I have the other families of Wing Chun, and I had no Wing Chun background at the time for comparison, but from what I remember there was definate overlap (as with all martial endeavors stemming from the same cultural foundation), but I didn’t see the extreme similarities that CSWC and HFYWC share. I would go a step further than David did and say that, as an anology, Mantis and Crane were cousins to the WC I have seen, while the WC are more like brothers. I could definately see a connection in basic operational concepts, but WC seemed so much more refined. Exactly as if it were a Southern Animal Style, but the animal was the Human Animal.
-Levi
Thanks Levi!
I often feel if people are looking for difference, they will find it, and if they’re looking for similarity, they will find that to, whether it be between neighbors, factions, or friends.
Re: Re: Hi Rolling_Hand
Originally posted by Phenix
[B]
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sorry, the computer can read chinese
[/B]
the paragraph can be found here, or see attached
http://www.wushulibrary.com/
Do Tse, Lee Sin-Sang!
I think I have a book with something very similar in, also similar paragraphs on WCK and WC Bak Hok K.
Ng Sai Hak Hay, Ritchie Sin-Sang!