how to properly perform the technical aspects of Wu Sau

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
61

Welcome to Question

Hello sunkuen,

You are welcome to question all you like. For me, I have seen first hand several different Wing Chun people and am confident that I can learn from Sifu Chow.

Who, may I ask was your “Sihing” and what did he teach to Sifu Chow? I know that Sifu has sought out various others in Wing Chun and taken what he liked and “integrated” it with what he was taught originally but, to my knowledge he only added things he already knew. For example, he did take soem things from Yip Chun for the knife but he already knew the knife first.

As to your reason for raising this question; lets just say I am dubious of your good intentions :wink:

Peace,

Dave

62

The whole system

Sunkuen raises an interesting point but then who did learn the “whole system”? And was it even a static target? When the answer to that comes back, and makes it an almost impossible criteria, what else is left to determine if someone can change something?

Rgds,

RR

63

Dave

I would very much like to meet your Sifu. He and I are more on the same wavelength. I would love to exchange Ideas and research notes with him as I know he is open minded. I have witnessed this already. :slight_smile:

64

rene

What i meant by the whole system was simply knowing all the forms.If you didn’t stick around long enuff to learn all the forms then perhaps you didn’t receive all the knowledge your sifu had to share with you.

Dave, your being a little paranoid don’t you think? I raised the question because it was completely in line with the remarks you made about your present sifu making changes in the slt.

btw, This sihing of mine and your sifu dont have any quarrels that i know of so i will chose to keep his name anonymous.Should you decide that you really need to know ask your sifu.Furthermore it’s really no big deal that a sihing of mine taught your sifu something,is it dave? We all have to learn from somebody. :slight_smile:

65

sunkuen

Hello,

I kind of figured you would not want to name anyone specific. Could you at least relay what was taught, or should I take your word for it?

The tone I got in your post was that Sifu Chow was not qualified to make any changes. If I missunderstand the tone of your post then please forgive me.

As to whether or not one of your Sihings had anything to offer to Sifu Chow, no, that really is no big deal to me. As I already said, Sifu Chow has openly sought out others who do Wing Chun in order to further his own understanding of the art. Knowledge can be found in even the most unlikely of places, as some on this board can attest :wink:

Peace,

Dave

66

sunkuen

Sure, but many of the most famous teachers in modern times haven’t known all the forms (some may have everything but the knives, or pole, or part of the dummy, etc.) when they started out. Some have cross-referenced, some have filled in, and some have changed.

Maybe there are other criteria?

Rgds,

RR

67

how to properly perform the technical aspects of wu sau

Dave, dont take my word for it ask c.k. chow if it upsets you that much (this wasn’t an attack on sifu chow). If the tone you got from my post was that sifu chow was not qualified to make any changes to the forms then you understood it correctly. :wink: LaiD BacK :wink:

68

rene

rene your absolutly right many famous sifu’s have not learned the entire system…take emin boztepe for e.g. do you think he qualifies to make changes to the siu lim tao,your famous rene,do you think you qualify (and i get the idea that you actually know all the forms in your system)?This again is not an attack but for the sake of argument.

69

sunkuen

Hello,

I think we both understand each other. I respect your right to your own view just as I have the right to my view.

I would never presume to make a judgement of someones ability to do Wing Chun or change the manner in which they do it without meeting that person in person. Nor would I do it based on second or third hand information. But hey, that’s just me :wink:

When you think about each and every one of us makes changes to Wing Chun as it was taught to us. We incorporate the teachings and then learn to apply it from the perspective of our bodies and needs. I highly doubt that Wing Chun today looks exactly the same as it did 150 years ago. You and I could be taught by the same Sifu and I am willing to bet each of us will do things slightly differently. Then when we apply these movements into Chi Sau or sparring I may concentrate on a certain type of approach while you take another road. The changes made by Sifu Chow, if you agree that an extending Wu is found later in the system, were not changes in the systme but kind of in the order in which they were presented. So, the system was not changed only the order in which some things were presented.

Further discussion of this subject will likley do nothing to serve either of us or the art of Wing Chun. Therefore I suggest we drop the subject of specific people being qualified nor not and ocncentrate on the movement in question.

How about discussing the proper shape or form and energy of the Wu Sau?

Peace,

Dave

70

so dave

How do you know who’s hands i’ve touched…ASSUME=ASS/U/ME! Please don’t assume anything about me dave. I do agree we should let this part of the thread close. What do you think wing chun looked like 150 years ago? :cool:

71

Dave said:
“I would never presume to make a judgement of someones ability to do Wing Chun or change the manner in which they do it without meeting that person in person.”
Dave also said to Roy D. Anthony:
“Hi Roy,
First let me thank you for your sterling advice. I will heed you advice and try to look at life through the eyes of someone who has nothing better to do but post vague comments at various sites throughout the internet. I will try to think about what such a life must be like, most likley few friends, afraid to openly share any knowledge I may have becuase it may show my true level of skill whihc is suffereing because I spend all of my time at the computer rather than in training.”
Have you met Roy, Dave, or are you too busy deleting posts you don’t like to actually get out there and meet people? I try to imagine what your life is like…
LMFAO!!

72

ROFLMAO

Hello Meng Shuo,

No I have not met Roy. I also don’t remember naming any names in that post. Of course, since you were so kind as to copy it into your last post perhaps you could point our where I mention Roys name :slight_smile: Kind of like the old adage “If the shoe fits…” :stuck_out_tongue:

Read the post, I stated and gave my opinion of people who post at several different places on the Internet when they could rather spend that time more constructively. What happened, did I touch a nerve? :smiley:

Why don’t you post something of substance rather than petty slights? I have conversed with Roy and am confident of his ability to defend himself and state his views, when he wishes.

BTW; I will be meeting several people tomorrow in Teaneck, NJ. I have also met and trained with such people as Samual Kwok, Yip Chun, Steve Swift, Leo Fong, Emin Boztepe, Keith Kernsprecht, Leung Ting, Joe Grepo and many others, and had a good time doing so. Your opinion of me does not make me lose any sleep at night, I am secure in my ability.

I realize that distance can be a factor in meeting people. However, there is an upcomming Friendship Seminar which I believe will be held in Chicago. Perhaps we could meet there. Of course, if you ever visit Philly or NY I am sure we could meet as well. And of course, you are welcome to attend the Tourney in NJ as well.

Hey, if you want to split the cost of my airfare I will be glad to fly up to Canada and visit with you as well. Or conversly we could discuss the possibility of sharing the cost of you traveling to Philly. Rest assured though that sooner or later I will make it up to Canada, most likely not this year, as there are several people I would like to meet, Rene, Pat Gordon, Roy, Whipping Hand and of course, You. What are the chances of you visiting me???

Peace,

Dave

73

hope to see you!

Please let us quaint neighbours to the North know of your arrival plans. I’d be happy to meet you.

As for trivial posts, I don’t think I have posted many. Check back and see just how many of my posts on things like form, stance, punches, and so on, don’t seem to warrant the attention of the good people on this board who, obviously, are way too talented at Wing Chun to lower themselves with a reply.

The egos out here are truly remarkable, and I hope that all Sifus around the world take note of just how NOT to behave toward those who have little more than a genuine interest in martial arts to offer, lest people decide Wing Chun is just another elitist group of grandstanding boors to be avoided like the plague.

Anyway Dave, one last comment (you may find it trivial): I think a moderator should be more in the background, rather than trying to dominate every single thread with his pearls of wisdom.

Take care.

Meng Shuo

74

Sunkuen

I think I’m more infamous, unfortunately 8( Personally, though, I don’t think my analysis is far enough along to pass on what I know yet, nevermind change it. Changes have occured, however, over the generations. Yip Man made some to his system, Yuen Kay-San and Sum Nung made some to theirs. Others have done the same. The way I learned, any changes were passed down, explained, tested, and both old and new versions tried out. When things are upfront like that, I have no problem with them, because students can make informed choices about what they’re learning.

Rgds,

RR

75

Meng Shuo

Hello,

Should I ever be fortunate enough to visit Canada I will be glad to meet with anyone wishing to do so. I inquired from Rene and Whipping Hand about how far the Falls are from where they are located. Rene replied that it was some distance and WH did not reply as of yet. I am trying to talk my wife into visiting, but she suspects my motivation as I seem to bring WC or the MA in general into many of our travels, LOL.

Perhaps some type of Canadian Friendship seminar could be arranged, RENE?? I am sure you, and others, could show me some good places to eat. Also, I believe Ho Kam Ming is located in Canada as well.

As to egos, there is some truth to that statement. There are some on this board who truly think highly of themselves and feel that anyone not in their sphere has little, if anything, to offer. I am sure that you and I would not have the same names come to mind though. :wink:

As to remaining in the background; I post when I feel I have something relevant to offer. If you look around you will see I am not on every post and on some I responded days later wishing to give others an opportunity. However, you will rarely see me posting negative comments directed at any group or lineage although, being human, I am still working on my responses to some individuals :stuck_out_tongue:

Feel free to discuss the art of Wing Chun. As to whether others on the board respond or not, that is their perogative. If you compare this board to others, say like the Ving Tsun Forum that several here frequent :wink: you will notice a difference. While we do have some egos and petty bickering here at least the art of Wing Chun is being discussed. While on that board, it seems little more than a group of name calling children. Any attempt to discuss the subject of Wing Chun is met with ridicule and insults. I am sure that someone with a genuine interest in martial arts would prefer a place where the topics of the art can be discussed.

We do not live in a perferct world and as time progresses we each, hopefully, learn. Sometimes we learn to change things and other times we realize things should have been done the original way after all.

In any event I look forward to reading some substantial posts from you, and others, in the near future.

Peace,

Dave

76

I look forward to reading something intelligent from you too, Dave. Take care.

77

Dave

Yes, Ho Kam Ming is in Canada, specifically Toronto but he is very critical of “outside” wing chun…he has a very sharp tongue and if you are one to get offended if your wing chun sifus are slighted, don’t visit the old man :slight_smile:

Just a prior warning…

and please don’t flame me here guys…i’m sure Ho himself will admit that he thinks his methods are superior to other wing chun sifus…

78

Can you really blame him?

79

Because you think he’s justified in thinking he is good? Just to clarify I know people who learn from him AND people who don’t and visited him. His students have some pretty weird techniques that I think leave them vulnerable…my friends who visited him are very good practioners…something I rarely see…

Ho’s critiques were just differences in approach. The whole his method versus my method thing. I don’t think one way was necessarily better than the other…

80

Empty Cup

I’m Sorry but I didn’t understand your last post. could you clarify that a bit more? especially about who is vulnerable and the weird techniques?
I would appreciate that sincerely. TY.