instead of moving the wu sau backwards would it be safer to turn into a bong or a tan. I know you would have to move the wu sau back a bit due to the time it would take to react.
LOL @ this whole thread
Is it already up 40 responses? Do I hear 50? 60?
the answer is…
It depends!!
What do I win?
let us begin with anatomy
Begin with hands at Dantien
Begin Wu Sao. Relax the shoulder.
Now begin to bring the Wu Sao into position.
This lesson will continue after these opening movements have been mastered.
“If do right, no can defense!”----Mr. Miyagi
Wu sau moving backwards
Moving forwards will become too much like a Tan Sau.
Moving Back (not directly back)will be just be as efficient.
woohoo sau
of course wu sau moves backwards…siu lim tao cant be wrong! was that too easy of an answer,perhaps,but its right there in the form.
sunkeun
It’s about time someone posted that.
Wu Sao in SLT
As the hand moves backwards, the mind remains forwards.
That is part of the whole point. 
Rene
my wu sau is at sternum level too…with one fist’s distance away from body
Forms strict adherence or flexibility
Hello,
While it is true that most Wing Chun do the Wu in the form drawing back there is at least one Wing Chun teacher who has reversed the method. Chung Kwok Chow moves the Wu forward and draws the Fook back in the form.
I believe that in application one may withdraw the Wu however only to point at which time it must convert to something else, NG Jut Sau or Taun Sau etc. You certainly would not want to withdraw your Wu too far, well maybe you would and I would thank you for it 
. If you think about it, even if withdrawing the energy in Wu is still going forward. In Fook, you can withdraw the elbow and use the energy to draw in or suck in the opponent.
As to height of Wu; mine starts around sternum level and progresses slightly higher as it moves out. At completion it is not uncommon for my Wu to be at chin level or even slightly higher.
Try this, take up your Wu at Sternum level and have someone exert pressure on it. Feel the energy and how well you can resist or guide their force. Now, place the Wu higher at Chin level and try the same thing. Which provides more support with less strength used?
Everyone will do things slightly different but nobody is necessarily wrong per se. Don’t wear blinders but keep teh eyes open and always question things
Peace,
Dave
SH73
I like to think the sets have a pretty good balance. For example, in SLT, as I learned it, the Wu Sao withdraws, but in CK there are at least 2 kinds of Wu Sao that extend. So, the flexibility might already be built in (and you could switch and swap, take apart and explore for variety and experience 8).
Rgds,
RR
Rene
Hi Rene,
You do raise a valid point, in many cases there are different ways to do things found in the different forms. If you were to apply the Wu with the Dummy it would have to be “extended” 
I think that Sifu Chow, and this is my opinion only, made the change based on the more prevalent use of the Wu. By teaching the “extending” Wu first, or earlier, students are exposed to it sooner and this is the way it would most likely be used. To be able to effectively us a “withdrawing” Wu I think one may need a bit more skill or sensitivity than the reverse, again my opinion alone ;).
This kind of leads us back to the idea of using concepts rather than techniques. If one understands the different ways of exerting and receving energy then the shape becomes more fluid and it is not necessary to be as strict. If you choose to use an exerting type of energy then you can do so whether it is with Wu, Taun, Bong or whatever. Likewise if you should use more of a withdrawing energy. As long as you grasp what the energy can do, and base it on what is being given by the opponent, then the shape is less important. The other thing is that some shapes will only allow so much flexibility based on their design. For example if you withdraw the Wu too far back then it will become a detriment rather than a help regardless of how well shaped it is. Although there are always exceptions to the rule
In performing a Wu Sau, it is far easier and safer, IMHO, to train to exert the force towards the opponent. Even in the traditional manner of doing the form the energy in Wu is still forward even when pulling back. Being able to perform this is a great asset. Still, it is easier and more immediately applicable to extend the Wu forward. When I look at the Fook Sau I view it and use it more as, what Sifu likes to refer to as, a “stalking” hand. No real energy being given instead it is used to “listen” to the opponent and react according to what they do. Viewed in this context I find it easy to see how it would be more withdrawing as it would “follow” the opponent in and stay with him/her. In doing so you may choose to collapse and go downward using a Jut Sau or you may choose to go forward and slighlty downward using a Jum Sau. Still, in both of these techniques the energy is accepting of what is given and would still tend to follow rather than lead.
Peace,
Dave
wu sau can also be a strike
wu sau should be chest level, hand on center, fingers pointing up. fist distance between elbow and body. when doing wu sau relax the hand as it comes out then contract/flex/flinch it up into wu sau, this will give it a spring forward. because of the flexing of the wrist in doing wu sau this way it can also be a strike with the outer edge of the hand, almost like a 1 inch punch.
know yourself don’t show yourself, think well of yorself don’t tell of yourself. lao tzu
dave
Your missing the whole point of the wu sau withdrawing (in slt)! When the wu sau is returning you obviously do not bring it right back to the chest because the hand and the elbow would clearly be collapsed ( chuk kiu).So when withdrawing the wu sau you bring it back as far as you can till you are just at the point of your “structure” being compromised, then it turns to fook sau again to go forward.Sunkuen 
Form or application
Hello sunkuen,
Thanks for the insight. I am however more concerned with applicaiton rather than form.
In application, the Wu will withdraw only to form something else, a Ng jut or a Taun etc. The form serves as a guide not set in stone. However, in actual use what is the intent and form of Wu will it really withdraw to a point only to change to Fook or will it exert forward pressure only to become something more striking
BTW, when I was taught the “traditional” way Wu never moved back to be any closer than a little over a fist distance from the chest. I hope that I did not miss the point completly, it is simply that I am now working on another approach of using Wu.
Peace,
Dave
application
hey dave
Application wise,sure you can turn it into jut,tan,why not lop da.The only things set in stone as far as the forms are concerned are the principles.BTW not only does the hand stay a fist and a thumb length away form the trunk don’t forget the elbow as well.
P.S. The fook sau is a good punch dave but against other wing chun guy’s i prefer the punch from the heart.
Piece
Sunkuen 
Well if people understood the use of the wu sao coming back, no one would change the form at all.
Understanding
Hello Roy,
You make an interesting statement. I am sure what you meant to say was:
If you did Wu Sau like me it would be okay
I find your post a little insulting to me and my Sifu. He has been teaching in NYC for over 30 years and was one of the first to teach Wing Chun openly. He is always willing to question things and do what he can to improve the art for himself and his students. He and I discussed the change in form over 5 years ago, it was not done overnight. We feel there is some benefit to it. Of course, I don’t expect you to understand. If there is, as Rene pointed out, examples of extending Wu’s in the Chum Kui, then it does not seem to violate any principles, only introduce a little earlier another way of performing Wu.
I would like to extend an offer for you to visit either NY or Philly so you could examine first hand what I am talking about. If time and finances permit, I would love to visit Canada but am not sure when I could arrange that. Unfortunately, it is an easy thing to make all sorts of comments behind the safety of posting on the internet. It is a shame really that so much distance lies between some of the members on this board, there are some whom I would really enjoy meeting.
I am curious, if and when you teach do you instill the same narrowminded self serving attitude in your students that you have shown here? I mean you were doing good for a short time posting things of interest and which actually edified the art and those in it. What happened, could’nt stomach the idea that you could post here and be an asset? Or is your ego too fragile to allow the idea that anyone deviating from your methods could be right, too?
As always, Roy, you could e-mail me the address is below:
dmcknight@rcn.com
sihing73@juno.com
Peace,
Dave
substance
Roy - What application(s) are you referring to? Maybe Dave’s sifu’s experiences have already considered that and still believe the way they do.
Dave - Once Roy has elaborated, maybe you could comment on whether or not his points have been considered.
For me, I think the close body methods (especially throws) work very well off the withdrawing Wu Sao. Dave’s point about the extending one being stressed for new students is good as well. The way I learned, we did that before the SLT in our San Sik, so I felt it covered. In another teaching approach, however, it may need address (anyone?).
Rgds,
RR
c.k. chow
hey dave
In reference to c.k.chow teaching for thirty years at least half of those years he hadn’t even learned the whole system himself.I know this because when my sihing was in n.y., c.k. chow asked him to teach some of the more advanced parts of the system because his students were nearing completion of the system as he “knew” it and he was becoming nervous about having to tell them he taught them everything he knows.I post this because it really makes me question the authority of c.k. chow to make changes to any form in the wing chun system.