Hello Everyone,
Here is a demo done by my Sihing Julio Ferrer from Seattle performed at Microsoft for the Chinese New Year celebration/banquet for the Taiwanese Employees Association;
You will notice the forms are done a bit differently. Keep in mind this is a demonstration so consider accordingly. 
Enjoy:
I liked the forms, I liked how they were done.
Never been a fan of the âblindfoldedâ chi sao, but hey, to each their own.
Good stuff.
I remember Chow Sifu in NYC. I can see the influences that led him to modify his system from what he originally learned.
It was a good presentation.
Happy Chinese New Year! Thank you for sharing!
Thanks for that Dave! I had never seen Chow Sifuâs forms demoâd before. Very interesting!
[QUOTE=Sihing73;1076167]Hello Everyone,
Here is a demo done by my Sihing Julio Ferrer from Seattle performed at Microsoft for the Chinese New Year celebration/banquet for the Taiwanese Employees Association;
You will notice the forms are done a bit differently. Keep in mind this is a demonstration so consider accordingly.
Dave- thanks for sharing the interesting demo video. I have 3 curiositiesâŚ
No criticisms implied.
joy chaudhuri
Dave- thanks for sharing the interesting demo video. I have 3 curiositiesâŚ
No criticisms implied.
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
Joy,
No criticism taken. We actually have the forms both with and without shifting. The reason Sifu Chow added the shifting, and even a stepping version, was to introduce the way to move early on in the training. By practicing the movements with a shift or step you get an idea of how the actual technique can be utilized. For example, if you do the Bong Sau but turn the wrong way its lack of usefullness will be apparent. Also, by training the movement you learn to connect the entire body behind every technique. Of course, you can get these through the traditional forms as well, it just is not introduced as early on.
The Wu goes forward and the fook retracts because that is how, we feel, the actual application is used. The extending Wu is already in the CK anyhow, we just start it earlier in the SNT. Wu should always be extending and only retract due to the opponents force, you can learn this the traditional way also, just seems easier for some to grasp early on by extending rather than retracting.
My opinion on why Sifu Chow made these changes is that the felt that by introducing the idea of movement and the entrie body behind each technique early on, it allows students to be able to apply the art much earlier in their training. Of course, Sifu Chow would be a better choice to answer as to why HE made changes.
FWIW, I was trained the traditional way, even when I first started with Sifu Chow. The shifting SNT was not introduced in our system until around 2000 if I recall correctly.
Sifu Chow has always been very open to other approaches and has sought out many other WC Sifu and explored their approaches. He has also been working to integrate BJJ into his approach to WC.
I am not a âcertifiedâ instructor in his system, although I am of his lineage now and he is both my Sifu and my good friend. The reason is that I have decided to explore a slightly different route by integrating the Pekiti Tirsia and my current exploration of American Kuntao Silat into my approach rather than the BJJ.
Keith, Paul and Robert,
Thank your for the kind words.
Perhaps Sifu Chow is allowing his Wing Chun to âevolveâ.
Thanks for the explanations Dave.
Good wishes, Joy
[QUOTE=Sihing73;1076258]Keith, Paul and Robert,
Thank your for the kind words.
Perhaps Sifu Chow is allowing his Wing Chun to âevolveâ. ;)[/QUOTE]
God I hope so !
If he is doing that ( and it seems he is) he is keeping to the tradition of WC and all other TMA.
[QUOTE=Sihing73;1076258]Keith, Paul and Robert,
Thank your for the kind words.
Perhaps Sifu Chow is allowing his Wing Chun to âevolveâ. ;)[/QUOTE]
Viva la revolution!
Gu Lao WCK points can be practiced in shifting and stepping manner, so its natural that Yip Man WCK sets can be played in the same manner.
I agree that progress is good too. As long as there is understanding behind, what I see as, key changes. It sounds like the changes made here were thought through well enough.
Images of Wing Chun forms are simply that. How you evolve your own image is what interests me, and this evolution should come from within Wing Chun itself IMHO. What I see hear does that, with a litttle Wudang Heigung too (which I donât know what to make of really)
I also find it interesting that our moderator is now posting his own threads
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1076406]I also find it interesting that our moderator is now posting his own threads ;)[/QUOTE]
Not really, this is my Sihing, not me. This just happened to get sent out to us by Sifu and I thought some may enjoy it.
It will be a while before I post anything of me doing anything. Not much to look at and I would not want to bore anyone.
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1076406]
I donât see a problem and his thread start up was interesting and about wing chun.
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1076442]-----------------------------------------------------------
I donât see a problem and his thread start up was interesting and about wing chun.
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
Did I say I had a problem Joy?? I said I found it âinterestingâ I quite like the idea that Dave is promoting his Kung Fu Bruvs, but I do feel that if I posted a video of me or a student doing SLT sets similar to his I would be ridiculed in one way or another :eek:
I will say this though, I donât believe this is progressive Wing Chun, itâs simply Wing Chun that has had time to grow. Like I said, I practise all forms in a set format that allows for this type of drilling (and more) but I wouldnât perform that as a whole form like done here as it tends to cause confusion in new students.
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1076514]Did I say I had a problem Joy?? I said I found it âinterestingâ
(Interesting could mean many things. No worries))Joy
I quite like the idea that Dave is promoting his Kung Fu Bruvs, but I do feel that if I posted a video of me or a student doing SLT sets similar to his I would be ridiculed in one way or another :eek:
((I dont think that Dave was intentionally âpromotingâ-just getting a conversation going, me thinks. Ridicule?â
keyboard criticsâ work is easy by both- novices and ideologues. One listens and if one has confidence in what you are doing- one ignores the noise))Joy
I will say this though, I donât believe this is progressive Wing Chun, itâs simply Wing Chun that has had time to grow. Like I said, I practise all forms in a set format that allows for this type of drilling (and more) but I wouldnât perform that as a whole form like done here as it tends to cause confusion in new students.[/QUOTE]
((I would not do it that way⌠but it is Chow sifuâs evolution- ok by me.He has his reasons apparently as Dave explained. In our SLT there is a double punch in the section that has double handed motions-han, ding etc- to provide a foundation for building equalization of power from both sides.We donât move the feet and horse around. One can always move on to chum kiu or bj footwork if the slt structure is developed enough.)
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1076514]I practise all forms in a set format that allows for this type of drilling (and more) but I wouldnât perform that as a whole form like done here as it tends to cause confusion in new students.[/QUOTE]
I personally can pick out at least five of my sihings by name simply by watching their students and grandstudents do their forms. I can also spot a close Yip Man student by a simple flair movement in ChumKiu. Every teacher has them.
Regardless of any reasoning behind it, solo forms are just choreography. If the essence is the same, it doesnât cause confusion (assuming one knows what is the essence. 
). On the contrary: the choreography shows a signature of the choreographer. At their best, such signatures are merely a pleasant momento of good times.
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1076514]⌠but I do feel that if I posted a video of me or a student doing SLT sets similar to his I would be ridiculed in one way or another :eek:[/quote]
This would depend on how goofy the choreography turns out.
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1076514] I do feel that if I posted a video of me or a student doing SLT sets similar to his I would be ridiculed in one way or another :eek:[QUOTE]
I would hope not. I will say that if you were, and I was aware of it, I would remove anyones post which did ridicule you, or anyone else, showing their interpretation of WC. Of course, if it takes me a day or two understand that I do not hit this forum every 10 minutes, like some seem capable of doing 
In TWC the Wu is trained pulling back but applied going forward.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1076623]In TWC the Wu is trained pulling back but applied going forward.[/QUOTE]
Phil,
That is how it is taught in most âtraditionalâ Wing Chun. When I first learned from Roy Undem, a student of Augustine Fong, the Wu was withdrawn with forward intent just as when I was taught WT. As a matter of fact when I first started with Sifu Chow the Wu was taugh retracting. It was only several years later that the form (SNT) was changed to an extending Wu. Kind of like the idea of training for how you would really use it, perhaps.
Like I said, you can learn to exert forward energy with a retracting Wu, however in application the Wu does go forward, unles the incoming energy forces the Wu to retract, would you agree?? Also, the extending Wu is found in the CK form, is this the same in TWC?
The only real advantage, if you want to call it that, to teaching and training the Wu to go forward from the beginning, imo, is that it presents the actual application earlier and may make the application more understandable in the beginning. Would you agree with this statement?