Hey Drake,
Not for nothing but the way I see it theres’s a whole lot more to Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do or Jeet Kune Do concepts than just western boxing,fencing & wing chun.
But hey I take it pics of BL sitting with other well known masters of Gung Fu Styles like Sifu Siu Hon Sang( 7star mantis)Sifu Sek Kin( Eagles claw) you may know him better as han from ETD) Sifu Au Wing Nin (white crane) just to name a few,oh & by the way just for the record two of three Sifu’s mentioned are from the Hong Kong Jing Mo Association… So now you tell me whats the deal with that… If anything At best I would say that Jun Fan is the base/core of Jeet Kune Do & Jeet Kune Do Concepts takes Jun Fan to the next level…
Bruce also mentioned in a letter to an old training partner that he taught some of his early students WC and some of “Uncle Siu’s northern-style high kicks” That could be Sifu Siu Hon Sang that RAYNSYNC mentions Lee sitting with on a photograph. THAT must be the Northern Mantis-connection.
And by the way,RAY, where have you seen those pictures?
I think that JFJKD is as stated previously made up PRIMARILY of Wing Chun, Boxing and Fencing. Bruce may have studied other styles, there may be other styles in JFJKD but these three are the main components of JFJKD.
In my opinion the components that were inspired or taken from other styles no longer really resemble the style they were taken from. As many people would say Bruce added his own slant to the techniques to make them work for him, to fit into his JFJKD framework.
People can always say that technique X is from Praying Mantis (just an example i am not trying to quote anyone here), but is it, the technique delivered the same way in JFJKD or has something been modified to make it work better in the JFJKD framework. Was a chamber removed (economy of motion)? is it now used from a lead weapon (closest weapon to nearest target)? was torque added?
I think this is something people do not spend enough time thinking about. Yes Bruce used lots of things from lots of places. But instead of spending time working out what he used from where, think about what he changed and why he changed it.
Adapting and changing techniques/movements to fit an individual’s needs is not a foreign concept to chinese Kung Fu. That has been going on for thousands of years. In fact, you can see this even today. In the 7 star Praying Mantis system for example, you will see people playing the same form a little different, depending on who’s doing the form. A certain technique might be done slightly different, or it can even be left out. The flavor, tempo,and power distribution can also vary. All this can be seen from people who share the exact same lineage. There are many reasons for this and I won’t get into that now. I just want to point out that the idea of changing and adapting is part of chinese kung fu. In the articles which I have, one of which I quoted above, the Sifu who taught Bruce Northern boxing stressed this very same principle.
Getting back to what Bruce learned and what he used, I believe that Bruce held back from teaching alot of what he knew. I believe Dan himself said something pertaining to that some time ago. Bruce always wanted to have the edge so it is quite possible that he chose to keep the Kung Fu he knew to himself. The evidence that he did practise other chinese systems besides Wing Chun is out there. There is a photo of Bruce using a crane’s beak on a student(I can’t remember if it’s Taky Kimura). The crane’s beak to the temple is a very famous Hung Gar technique. Also, there is another photo of Bruce doing a technique which is known as playing the flute and he’s in a 7 star stance. This is a 7 star mantis technique. Bruce can be seen in a photo on the set of Enter the Dragon doing a Jing Yow (Eagle Claw). The rear leg heel kick to the lower leg which Bruce uses against Chuck Norris in Return of the Dragon is known as Jak Toy and is used alot in the 7star mantis system. There are many other such photos. With the possible exception of Eagle Claw, the techniques I’ve mentioned could have very well been taught by the same Sifu in the articles since those are techniques from the very same systems which he knew and taught. The Eagle Claw could have been taught by Shek Kin who was a master in the system. But Shek Kin also learned at Jing Mo and was close friends with Sifu Shiu Hong San so they could have shared forms and techniques since this was very common at Jing Mo.
As far as not chambering kicks, that is not something Bruce came up with on his own. Chinese Kung Fu kicks are not chambered. And as far as torquing for power..well, that’s already in Kung Fu also. Every system of Chinese Kung Fu has it’s way of issuing power in accordance with the principles and makeup of the system.
I believe its not about what BL Changed & why he changed it… It had more to do with his understanding of the theories & principles of application then the technique he was using in set times of his life…
Unfortunately, information about Sifu Siu Hon San is hard to come by these days. Real Kung Fu and Secrets of Kung Fu magazines were really the only ones who published articles on him back in the 70’s. These magazines however, have long been out of print. My Sifu has almost all of them and that is how I was able to get copies myself.
If I had a scanner I would be more than happy to send them to you but I don’t. If you are interested contact me privately, maybe we can work something out.
The Jkd school I went to, consisted mostly of WC/Lama Pai Crane/BJJ. There was some western boxing, and some fencing, but those were the main styles used. Of course a couple other styles had some techs thrown in.
But we are talking Jun Fan here, so that is besides the point.
Also, as far as ppl quoting Taky Kimura, and Danny Inosanto, Bruce Lee said it in his book, that both Taky and James were more steeped in the Wing Chun chinese system, because they both met at an early stage in his development, and that he tries to liberate them from one way to walk the “pathless path”. BL went on to say that Dan met him in the midst of his evolution, although at that time, he had less training then both Taky and James.
The Jkd school I went to, consisted mostly of WC/Lama Pai Crane/BJJ. There was some western boxing, and some fencing, but those were the main styles used. Of course a couple other styles had some techs thrown in.
that sounds like a rare JKD school
is’nt it mostly those Boxing/Muay Thai/BJJ/Kali schools that are most common?
Yeah, this was different, it had a lot of Wing Chun and Lama Pai Crane. And once or twice a week, there was an instructer who came in and taught BJJ. Like I said there was some boxing and fencing, and I think a few Muy Thai techs, but mostly WC/Lama Pai Crane/BJJ.
The sifu is Jack Soiderberg. Count’s former sifu in Chicago.
There is another place here in town that teaches JKD, and mostly consists of what you mentioned, bjj/and or sambo. With a big emphasis on Kali. But I think that place is more into workshops for some reason.
If anything At best I would say that Jun Fan is the base/core of Jeet Kune Do & Jeet Kune Do Concepts takes Jun Fan to the next level…
