i dont htink its pointless.
it may be pointless if i asked “who would win” between these two.. because no fight is a predictable one.
What i wanted to know is what sort of techniques woudl a CLF use againsta WC guy. Sure thers a lot someone can use, butjust to get an idea. You see in books and on the net how WC is supposed to be the “best” martial art or whatever and then they show pictures of how they would deal with a various attacks. Their not showing them so you will always use the same move/technique. Their showing you jsut to get a feel for what can be done to handle this sort of attack. This is no different then what I was asking.
Originally posted by wahh i dont htink its pointless.
You see in books and on the net how WC is supposed to be the “best” martial art or whatever and then they show pictures of how they would deal with a various attacks. Their not showing them so you will always use the same move/technique. Their showing you jsut to get a feel for what can be done to handle this sort of attack. This is no different then what I was asking.
The problem w/ the pictures that you see in books is that they often showing an attacker using a technique that would only be used by someone with little or not martial art skill. Or the attacker is using an attack from the same system the defender is using.
When you get into discussions about a fight between two trained martial artist its kind of a crap shoot as to whos gonna win. It probably comes down to the person who has the most experience, the most technical skill, has sparred with more people from various styles and whoever gets the first clean shot in. You also have to take into account things like speed, strength, courage and tenacity. So although all authentic and practical systems have there merits as always it comes down to the individual.
and luck! but are we now talking ring fighting or the real deal?
I think, though, by asking what does a CLF use against a WC is again a futile question. The point of kungfu is mean to be able to improvise on the spot, not conciously react, but subconciously.
It’s like when you are in the shower and you knock over a shampoo bottle and you just catch it without thought. It’s not like you see it falling and say “I study CLF, therefore i will use this technique to catch this falling object” because by the time you did that the shampoo bottle would be on the ground making a cup of tea.
Kungfu is not A does B so therefore i will do C. Kungfu is subconcious spontaneity.
You idea of what a CLF would use against a WC reminds me of this quote:
“Life, as I see it, is not a location but a journey. Even the man who feels most ‘settled’ is not settled - he is porbably sagging back. Everything is in flux, and was meant to be. Life flows. We may live at the same number of the same street, but it is never the same man who lives there… it could almost be written down as formula that when a man begins to think that at last he has found his method, he had better begin a most searching exmaination of himself to see whether part of his brain had not gone to sleep.” - Henry ford, My Life and Work 1922
As in all styles, the CLF is open to infinate answers to the question put to him by WC. The WC practisitoner is also open to infinte answers to the question put to him by the CLF practitioner.
the question you ask therefore has no answer, or infinte answers. that is kungfu.
You idea of what a CLF would use against a WC reminds me of this quote:
“Life, as I see it, is not a location but a journey. Even the man who feels most ‘settled’ is not settled - he is porbably sagging back. Everything is in flux, and was meant to be. Life flows. We may live at the same number of the same street, but it is never the same man who lives there… it could almost be written down as formula that when a man begins to think that at last he has found his method, he had better begin a most searching exmaination of himself to see whether part of his brain had not gone to sleep.” - Henry ford, My Life and Work 1922
As in all styles, the CLF is open to infinate answers to the question put to him by WC. The WC practisitoner is also open to infinte answers to the question put to him by the CLF practitioner.
the question you ask therefore has no answer, or it has infinte answers. That is the way of kungfu.
I agree with what you have just posted. But I think the originator of the thread is asking a hypothetical question. It is like asking a boxer what is his gameplan before the fight. The fight may or may not turn out as what the boxer has expected.
if we are talking pre-emptive fighting, i.e. ring fighting, then we are not discussing kungfu. It would be unwise to use WC or CLF in a pre-emptive situation, or any style for that matter other than styles designed for the ring.
Why? A simple example:
Spontaneous -
ATTACKER: throws a punch at you unexpectedly in a pub, chances are it will hit you.
DEFENDER: the attacker doesn’t expect you to react and you catch his arm in a lock and subdue him.
Pre-emptive-
ATTACKER: throws a punch at you, you block it.
DEFENDER: he is ready for you to try to lock his arm so the move does not work.
Rule of thumb: kungfu only truly works when it is spontaneous and instantaneous. Most moves in kungfu will not work in the ring.
This is why we have San Shou, kungfu that is specifically designed for the ring.
I do loads of Chi Sao in CLF It is however very different to WC Chi Sao (confuses the hell out of WC guys when you demonstrate it, it’s familiar but alien). Bridge creation is a foundation of Kung Fu though.
CLF is great in close quarters as it’s very instinctive. Just turn your waist in or out and do something with your arms.
It’s also similar to northern styles, where the same technique can be used with any degree of arm extension. Gwa and Sow work perfectly well with your shoulder.
Originally posted by Ben Gash I do loads of Chi Sao in CLF It is however very different to WC Chi Sao (confuses the hell out of WC guys when you demonstrate it, it’s familiar but alien). Bridge creation is a foundation of Kung Fu though.
CLF is great in close quarters as it’s very instinctive. Just turn your waist in or out and do something with your arms.
It’s also similar to northern styles, where the same technique can be used with any degree of arm extension. Gwa and Sow work perfectly well with your shoulder.
What kinds of Chi Sao do you do?
Gwa and Sao as shoulder strikes…very interesing…i’d like to see that demonstrated.
i was wondering if any choy lay fut practiioner can tell me how they would deal with a wing chun fighter.
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Has he trained in anything besides wing chun? Has he been training longer than you? what’s the height/weight difference? size does matter, as does his reach. There are way to many factors to legitimately answer such a question…
you gotta make him play your game, your rules. don’t let his style dictate the fight.
This little chestnut about Wing Chun v Choi Lee Fut always comes around.
Having studied both systems I’ve never really understood the some of the arguments.
Both systems you punch, block, elbow, knee, palm, kick, sweep, push, and throw.
Originally posted by alecM This little chestnut about Wing Chun v Choi Lee Fut always comes around.
I have only seen CLF in a book, I haven’t had the opportunity to see it properly. I thought CLF was a longfist style, while WC is short fist? It’s just in this book the CLF Master was doing a Fan form and a Spear form which looked longfist.
Anyone want to tell me a bit about CLF? Very interested.
what’s funny is that ppl often think about how they should fight another styolist based on what they IDEALLY would pull off in a situation. However the reality of it is that most CMAs end up doing stuff that’s in no way whatsoever similar to their style
When looking at this thread one should instead think of “how would a CLF stylist deal with a WC stylist when both add kickboxing to their arsenal?”
Just playing around…all us WCnners know that WC always wins against CLT!
It is however very different to WC Chi Sao (confuses the hell out of WC guys when you demonstrate it, it’s familiar but alien). Bridge creation is a foundation of Kung Fu though.
