A student having learned how to apply a technique from day 1, is more of a threat to himself, than having not walked into the school at all.
Teaching the student how to apply the “techniques” that he just learned in the way of a form or drill, gives them a jumpstart on “technique” based martial study. In the long run, it benefits not the student, nor the teacher, nor the art.
Teachers have an obligation to take responsibility for the martial ingnorance of his students. Assuming that the teacher is not ignorant himself… Otherwise the teacher is doing disservice to the student by teaching him, and others in the first place.
The teacher is the teacher, and the student is the student. Not saleperson and customer.
Originally posted by fmann And besides, what’s better motivation to get better? Someone telling you something has to get better or be corrected? Or you knowing that something doesn’t work and therefore should be corrected else you get your @ss handed to you?
These are not mutually exclusive. In other words, something has to get better or be corrected or else you’re going to get your @ss handed to you.
Of course I’m being a bit of a devil’s advocate here, and just want to stimulate discussion. I understand and appreciate where you’re coming from. My concern would be if someone attempted to short cut the natural progression of the system in order to get to a level of self defence. I understand from your posts that you are not advocating this approach, but I bet you’ve seen examples of what I referring to.
Effective self-defense is also not necessarily the same as martial art.
This does tend to be the case. The problem is when some people get the two confused. Do you remember those Infomercials where people thought they could defend themselves with Tae Bo?
Originally posted by whippinghand A student having learned how to apply a technique from day 1, is more of a threat to himself, than having not walked into the school at all.
I agree with that. I dropped that line more as an idealistic perversion, just like people say, “My philosophy is to shoot em all and let God sort it out.”
Basically, I agree with you WH, as I have done so in the past, and I agree with Matrix. I’m just raising points and seeing where they go. The topic I’m addressing is that “real deal” in today’s world means what? Does it mean self-defense and application to the “real world?” Or is self-improvement and inner understanding the “real deal” and all of the fighting stuff just nonsense? Or is it a seamless blending of the two?
It’s quite an interesting topic.
Regarding self-defense and martial arts: Not all martial artists can defend themselves properly. Taking traditional karate and attaining a black belt does not mean you can deal with a thug that wants to club you over the head with a brick – the MA in and of itself does not teach you the level of awareness that’s required in today’s world. Defending oneself requires a mindset and situational awareness that is often not addressed.
Originally posted by fmann I’m just raising points and seeing where they go. The topic I’m addressing is that “real deal” in today’s world means what? Does it mean self-defense and application to the “real world?” Or is self-improvement and inner understanding the “real deal” and all of the fighting stuff just nonsense? Or is it a seamless blending of the two?
I see the two parts as integral to the whole system. WC in my view is all about “real world” application. There isn’t any unnecessary filler. Very efficient and effective.
Regarding self-defense and martial arts: Not all martial artists can defend themselves properly.
No doubt about that. Even some Black Belts in some schools cannot defend themselves well, and I feel that this only serves to illustrate my previous points. These schools teach “self-defence” from day-one, and yet several years later the student cannot defend themselves properly. Why??? Because they are taught a hodge-podge of techniques that are not integrated into a complete system. The student just mimics the instructor and doesn’t understand why they are doing things a certain way. They also tend to allow students with weak basic skills to advance to the next belt level just because they’ve taken “x” number of classes. Then they are taught new patterns, and techniques that build on that weak foundation and what you eventually end up with is a house-of-cards, which collapses quickly under pressure.
