no tricks or bait and switch-black and white-yes or no please…
Does HFY have a Gwai ma section in their Biu Jee form?
Hey DR.LJ,
Are you John Cresione?
Sauchi
LOL, didn’t see a ‘yes’ or a ‘know’ in that reply! 
That’s Me!!!
Yes-Hi Matt how are you!!
How’s things?
Hey John, good thanks!
I’m going to answer your question:
Yes, they do.
[QUOTE=Mr Punch;835546]Hey John, good thanks!
I’m going to answer your question:
Yes, they do.[/QUOTE]
Interesting, so does TWC. Sifu Ryan Kennedy from Toronto demonstates it here:
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/clips.asp
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;835550]Interesting, so does TWC. Sifu Ryan Kennedy from Toronto demonstates it here:
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/clips.asp[/QUOTE]
Hey Phil!
When was this “secret” revealed? That wasn’t part of the 3rd form when I learned it from John Clayton. It also wasn’t part of the 3rd form in Master Cheung’s book.
Hi Keith-
How’s it going man?
That was a pre USA thing that was taken out and then put back in-I have seen a few variations of it-
Hey Punch
-check you pm here bro’
[QUOTE=KPM;835606]Hey Phil!
When was this “secret” revealed? That wasn’t part of the 3rd form when I learned it from John Clayton. It also wasn’t part of the 3rd form in Master Cheung’s book.[/QUOTE]
First of all Capt’n I want to make it clear that there are no secrets. I don’t want to get slammed here again for my joke about it . . .lol
The Gwai Mah has been a part of the form for years. When Sifu Delroi Flood from Bermuda went to Australia in the 80’s he saw the Aussies doing the Gwai Mah and showed it to me. We would pratice it but never taught it. Also, I have a video from a 2006 L.A. seminar where Joe Sayah asks Sifu Cheung about the Gwai Mah section of the Biu Jee form that was taught years ago and if we could start teaching it again. Sifu said OK so it’s back in the form. There are also kicks on the dummy that many people may not have seen that are taught now. There is footage of Sifu doing the dummy form with those kicks when he went to the VTTA in HK in the late 70’s to show the forms. In fact there are things I hadn’t seen before myself that have been taught in the last few years. But remember, they aren’t secrets but just things Sifu has decided to teach now.
Phil
The Gwai Mah was part of the form when I learned it in c. 1991-2 while my academy was still part of the WWCKFA.
I’ve been taught the 16 kick dummy set, and another chi gerk dummy set, but AFAIK these were not on the curriculum from 1989-1996 (whne I started TWC and when my instructor left the WWCKFA). My instructor had learned them at some earlier time from GM Cheung.
[QUOTE=anerlich;835782]The Gwai Mah was part of the form when I learned it in c. 1991-2 while my academy was still part of the WWCKFA.
I’ve been taught the 16 kick dummy set, and another chi gerk dummy set, but AFAIK these were not on the curriculum from 1989-1996 (whne I started TWC and when my instructor left the WWCKFA). My instructor had learned them at some earlier time from GM Cheung.[/QUOTE]
I concur with you Andrew. The Gwai Mah was taught a long time ago. Keith Young who’s been a student under Sifu Cheung since 1979 will say the same thing.
Phil
Gwai Ma
John,
In response to your question, HFY does indeed have Gwai Ma.
But I don’t think getting this answered is your real motive. Gwai ma is all over the place in traditional Kung Fu systems, and your question is as silly as someone asking if martial art uses arms and legs.
Given your history with Robert hopefully this isn’t some cheap attempt to further propogate rumors Robert started about TWC and HFY somehow being stolen or borrowing from each other. If so next thing you know maybe you will take the stance that Choi Lee Fut came from HFY or TWC since they too use Gwai Ma.
Matt
Honest HFY Question-
no tricks or bait and switch-black and white-yes or no please…
Does HFY have a Gwai ma section in their Biu Jee form?
By default John through your connection with Robert Chu any question you have for HFY is seen as insincere of questionable motive and in this particular case as a waste of time since the way this question was formed shows a lack of common knowledge on your part no understanding of Chinese and that you are willing to risk looking foolish for some reason when you could have very easily done a search of this forum on your own and formed an intelligent opinion as to the answer and then asked a more credible question.
Even with the trivial and frivolous answer provided by Mr. Punch he comes off as slightly more credible than yourself even if he did have a 50/50 chance of guessing southern arts sometimes have things in common.
I agree with Matt on the surface your question sounds silly but my analogy would be akin to asking a southern martial artist do you use sao in your system. Gwai Ma is present in all southern martial arts in some form or another. Gwai Ma is more a term emphasizing the use of the knee but more times than not any specific use because it is a general term. Any system which emphasizes tin yaan dei as Hung Fa Yi does and being a southern martial art will utilize Gwai Ma but it will not be specific to the Bui Jee level because again it is a general term.
If Robert has any more questions tell him to ask them himself.
You 2 guys are something-
Real good way to win friends and influence people-so because I know Robert I’m guilty of what?
Robert is his own man-I am not his mouthpiece
How about this guys-Yip man lineage doesn’t have it in the forms,Yeun Kay San does-so easy to ask a question if I don’t know an answer-why “assume”?
How many bs threads and flame wars have I been involved with on this forum?
How often do I post here?
My history on this board is non confrontational !
I have been on good terms to Benny and Gee sifu for a long time.
Why create a problem that isn’t here due to knee jerk reaction?
I asked a black and white question-period.
I don’t think John meant anything bad and I understand how you might feel. HFY and TWC are controversial versions of WC. You should expect queries based on that fact.
People always ask why is your tan sao so high, why do you train to fight on the blindside, YM taught everyone the same, your forms look funny? I could go on. I don’t react negatively though. The only way to prove the effectiveness of a fighting art is to fight. Get my point? We fight and what we use works. You’re going to get questions so what people say doesn’t really matter. I deal with questions from a techniacal standpoint. I don’t take it personal. After all NONE of us can claim to know everything about WC history or origins.
Honest HFY Question-
no tricks or bait and switch-black and white-yes or no please…
No one who starts off with a phrase like that is ever taken seriously. It’s equivalent to saying “I’m not a racist but…” John, you’re on such good terms with Benny why not just ask him your questions.
Phil
It’s a two way street if you don’t want your question to be taken personal might I suggest that a person not take the answer personal either. Phil you of all people should understand how the insincerity of this particular question was perceived by HFY members. We have local and international students and family members who viewed the question based upon John’s relationship to Robert which could never be mistaken as sincere given his history and willingness to instigate ill will and distrust. We contrast with the likes of your own family member Sifu Flood who traveled more than 2,000 miles to a HFY Seminar in Dayton to have his questions answered in person. Sifu Flood as you will remember stated he saw things on the surface that he thought were similar to his previous training only to have the details presented to him in person and find out that things can look similar but provided with the details they can actually be quite different that is the route to finding real answers.
People of questionable character or associates of those with questionable character or a known bias towards the HFY family should expect their questions to be received with some animosity or a watchful eye at the very least. There are many reasons to doubt the sincerity of John’s question not the least of which is that he gives no detail for why he raised the question in his original post and later he suggest that for someone who doesn’t post very often it makes sense that this inaccurate question was a good reason to post.
So on the contrary if John is trying to insight the whole of the HFY family both local and internationally by posting questions such as this he only risk further widening the distrust created by Robert Chu and angering our members to the point that they do answer him more harshly than I or Matt have already. You get what you put out Sifu Flood has won the admiration of many of our members simply because he was willing to do things in a manner which show sincerity with action over words. So at this point John appears to be more about games and more distrust than he is about positive and sincere action and interaction involved in positive learning and sharing of ideas. Other HFY members have read the post and chose not to answer him but should they meet in person they might be a little more willing to express themselves to him. That is something to take into account as well when phrasing these questions on an international web site.
Its all in how you ask
John,
re-
Why create a problem that isn’t here due to knee jerk reaction?
I asked a black and white question-period.
If you look at your original question-
no tricks or bait and switch-black and white-yes or no please…
To me that comes across like you expect a shady answer or some deception, when you ask like that expect to get a response you probably won’t like.
Matt
[QUOTE=osprey3883;835883]John,
re-
If you look at your original question-
To me that comes across like you expect a shady answer or some deception, when you ask like that expect to get a response you probably won’t like.
Matt[/QUOTE]If you weren’t so wary of shadows that are not there you could have interpreted it as: “no tricks or bait and switch on my (John C) part”.
When he is asking for a “yes or no” answer, how can you offer a shady answer? A deceptive one maybe, but that is only a 50-50 possibility.
You’re usually more open than others to questions about HFYWCK.
HFYWCK against the world … rah rah rah …
Chee,
Some people/groups are their own worst enemy, I’m starting to think that is the case here:)
James